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> Americans tend to be enthusiastic about their company mission - in the extreme, believing that they’re saving the world I would explain this as commitment si

> Americans tend to be enthusiastic about their company mission - in the extreme, believing that they’re saving the world I would explain this as commitment signaling. I don’t know if they really believe it, but they want to show they are part of the team and the talking points. Adults use language in a less literal way than introverted engineers may be comfortable with.

antonvs 2y ago
> Americans tend to be enthusiastic about their company mission - in the extreme, believing that they’re saving the world This is more of a Silicon Valley thing, isn't it? I've worked for or interacted with plenty of non-tech large enterprises where that's certainly not true.
- snackbroken 2y ago
  It's certainly more of a thing in SV, but it's not just a SV thing. The US in general is about as far removed from the rest of the world on this axis as SV is from the rest of the US. Experiences vary, of course.
AnotherGoodName 2y ago
I will say there are specifically some things my fellow Australians do have do in the USA that we would not in our home country. To my fellow Australians; when you go for the big tech job interview you often have to memorize the company mission statement and values. Yes it's a complete wank. You'll never use it internally. But i have seriously been asked about the companies mission statement for Meta, Google, Amazon in those respective interviews. Utterly insane from an Australian point of view - you'd get pass and a mark for directness for saying "i don't bloody well know". I have heard of mission statements being asked by international companies operating in Australia but again you'd pass if the interviewer themselves was Australian since it's 100% seen as bullshit by every level of Australians from management to employees on the ground. eg. Wtf is a mission statement and why am i being asked thread on the Australia subreddit: https://old.reddit.com/r/australian/comments/1f7srnw/what_is_the_logic_behind_company_mission/ https://old.reddit.com/r/australian/comments/1f7srnw/what_is...
- antonvs 2y ago
  Meta, Google, and Amazon are outliers, though. Part of their schtick originally was that they're trying to build a cult, although my sense is that may have relaxed a bit as they've grown. IBM used to do a similar thing back in the day. I've worked in tech in the US as an immigrant for over 40 years, and never been quizzed on a mission statement.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- liontwist 2y ago
  Reading this thread I’m realizing maybe Americans better understand organizational politics, and this social technology is an unappreciated contributor to productivity. I agree this kind of thing is performative, but let’s steel man the other side. You are looking for a place to spend 8 hours a day doing your most skillful craft, and you don’t want to know what the organization is trying to achieve? Yes I understand it’s performative, but why wouldn’t you take 10 minutes to indicate you are doing that kind of serious thinking? It’s like asking a boss for guidance without doing groundwork to make a recommendation.
  - AnotherGoodName 2y ago
    Company level mission statements tend to be too vague to be relevant or helpful and they really don't actually apply anyway. They may as well all say "we do good things" when the actual underlying goal is "make money". I do believe in the "When in Rome do as the Romans do" mindset though so i'll happily memorize it 2 mins before the interview. It's just that i 100% openly refuse to accept they are anything other than virtue signalling.
    - liontwist 2y ago
      All that might be true, and it’s still a bad political move to show up without preparation that indicates you did more than upload a resume. You’re basically saying “i don’t know how to present myself and I’m going to cause problems for your organization”. It’s like “why can’t I show up at 2 PM and work until 11. I get my work done”. You just have no awareness and are a liability for your boss.
adrianh 2y ago
I'd call this a California thing — or, more broadly, a behavior by people who want to align themselves culturally with Silicon Valley. Work with some Chicagoans (or Midwesterners in general) and you'll get a lot less BS. Obviously this is painting with broad strokes, as different types of people live everywhere.
- liontwist 2y ago
  This does not align with my experience. Midwest middle aged folks at boring corporations are pros.
pythonguython 2y ago
This also seems generational to me. I’m an American younger than 30 and the only people at my company who embody this are the senior people over the age of 40.
- jghn 2y ago
  As a Gen Xer, I figured this was a millennial thing. Given the age ranges you cite that may still be the case. I don't work with enough Gen Zers to paint them with a broad brush. But most of the people I've worked with who wanted feel "part of something" had been 10+ years younger than me.
  - liontwist 2y ago
    I think it’s a “has work experience” thing.
- datavirtue 2y ago
  There is no quicker way to get yourself put on the back burner than failing to pick up the pom poms. If you are valued by management you will get a few warnings but other than that you go one a silent list for the next restructuring or making an example of.
- leptons 2y ago
  >the only people at my company So your sample size is 1 company? That's very anecdotal. And you're younger than 30, so you probably haven't worked at many companies. There are plenty of people in plenty of other companies that you've never met.
  - pythonguython 2y ago
    It sounded anecdotal because I shared an anecdote. I don’t have a research study on the topic. Still anecdotally, I’d say the same thing about my 3 internships, so I’ll say n = 4. Happy to hear your anecdotal experience or non anecdotal data.
    - 2y ago
prmoustache 2y ago
> Americans tend to be enthusiastic about their company mission - in the extreme, believing that they’re saving the world As a european working in a US company, my experience is a lot of this is just hypocritical corporate bullshit. The difference can be incredible between the public communication which usually sounds like a huge parody and the opinion people really share behind the curtain in more private meetings. Also being european you are usually used to be able to swear quite easily at work. What we perceive from the US culture that comes to us through movies/series would make us think it would be the same in the USA. However it is the opposite. People swear a lot less at work in the USA in my experience. At least online.
- nozzlegear 2y ago
  > Also being european you are usually used to be able to swear quite easily at work. What we perceive from the US culture that comes to us through movies/series would make us think it would be the same in the USA. However it is the opposite. People swear a lot less at work in the USA in my experience. At least online. In the US it's generally considered rude or "uncouth" to swear in the workplace, unless it's in a private conversation with another coworker who's okay with it.
ehnto 2y ago
> Adults use language in a less literal way than introverted engineers may be comfortable with. How condescending. "Adults" in other regions often do not have the facade of overenthusiasm that America/SV specifically has. It is a cultural quirk, not something specific to if someone's an introverted engineer or not. I've worked for SV companies as an outsider as well, and it was immediately noticeable. It was like everyone had a gun to their back and were being asked to say "I love the company!". It reminded me of a Japanese company, except without the deeper authenticity granted by older social protocols.

antonvs 2y ago

> Americans tend to be enthusiastic about their company mission - in the extreme, believing that they’re saving the world This is more of a Silicon Valley thing, isn't it? I've worked for or interacted with plenty of non-tech large enterprises where that's certainly not true.

snackbroken 2y ago
It's certainly more of a thing in SV, but it's not just a SV thing. The US in general is about as far removed from the rest of the world on this axis as SV is from the rest of the US. Experiences vary, of course.

AnotherGoodName 2y ago

I will say there are specifically some things my fellow Australians do have do in the USA that we would not in our home country. To my fellow Australians; when you go for the big tech job interview you often have to memorize the company mission statement and values. Yes it's a complete wank. You'll never use it internally. But i have seriously been asked about the companies mission statement for Meta, Google, Amazon in those respective interviews. Utterly insane from an Australian point of view - you'd get pass and a mark for directness for saying "i don't bloody well know". I have heard of mission statements being asked by international companies operating in Australia but again you'd pass if the interviewer themselves was Australian since it's 100% seen as bullshit by every level of Australians from management to employees on the ground. eg. Wtf is a mission statement and why am i being asked thread on the Australia subreddit: https://old.reddit.com/r/australian/comments/1f7srnw/what_is_the_logic_behind_company_mission/ https://old.reddit.com/r/australian/comments/1f7srnw/what_is...

antonvs 2y ago
Meta, Google, and Amazon are outliers, though. Part of their schtick originally was that they're trying to build a cult, although my sense is that may have relaxed a bit as they've grown. IBM used to do a similar thing back in the day. I've worked in tech in the US as an immigrant for over 40 years, and never been quizzed on a mission statement.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
liontwist 2y ago
Reading this thread I’m realizing maybe Americans better understand organizational politics, and this social technology is an unappreciated contributor to productivity. I agree this kind of thing is performative, but let’s steel man the other side. You are looking for a place to spend 8 hours a day doing your most skillful craft, and you don’t want to know what the organization is trying to achieve? Yes I understand it’s performative, but why wouldn’t you take 10 minutes to indicate you are doing that kind of serious thinking? It’s like asking a boss for guidance without doing groundwork to make a recommendation.
- AnotherGoodName 2y ago
  Company level mission statements tend to be too vague to be relevant or helpful and they really don't actually apply anyway. They may as well all say "we do good things" when the actual underlying goal is "make money". I do believe in the "When in Rome do as the Romans do" mindset though so i'll happily memorize it 2 mins before the interview. It's just that i 100% openly refuse to accept they are anything other than virtue signalling.
  - liontwist 2y ago
    All that might be true, and it’s still a bad political move to show up without preparation that indicates you did more than upload a resume. You’re basically saying “i don’t know how to present myself and I’m going to cause problems for your organization”. It’s like “why can’t I show up at 2 PM and work until 11. I get my work done”. You just have no awareness and are a liability for your boss.

adrianh 2y ago

I'd call this a California thing — or, more broadly, a behavior by people who want to align themselves culturally with Silicon Valley. Work with some Chicagoans (or Midwesterners in general) and you'll get a lot less BS. Obviously this is painting with broad strokes, as different types of people live everywhere.

liontwist 2y ago
This does not align with my experience. Midwest middle aged folks at boring corporations are pros.

pythonguython 2y ago

This also seems generational to me. I’m an American younger than 30 and the only people at my company who embody this are the senior people over the age of 40.

jghn 2y ago
As a Gen Xer, I figured this was a millennial thing. Given the age ranges you cite that may still be the case. I don't work with enough Gen Zers to paint them with a broad brush. But most of the people I've worked with who wanted feel "part of something" had been 10+ years younger than me.
- liontwist 2y ago
  I think it’s a “has work experience” thing.
datavirtue 2y ago
There is no quicker way to get yourself put on the back burner than failing to pick up the pom poms. If you are valued by management you will get a few warnings but other than that you go one a silent list for the next restructuring or making an example of.
leptons 2y ago
>the only people at my company So your sample size is 1 company? That's very anecdotal. And you're younger than 30, so you probably haven't worked at many companies. There are plenty of people in plenty of other companies that you've never met.
- pythonguython 2y ago
  It sounded anecdotal because I shared an anecdote. I don’t have a research study on the topic. Still anecdotally, I’d say the same thing about my 3 internships, so I’ll say n = 4. Happy to hear your anecdotal experience or non anecdotal data.
  - 2y ago

prmoustache 2y ago

> Americans tend to be enthusiastic about their company mission - in the extreme, believing that they’re saving the world As a european working in a US company, my experience is a lot of this is just hypocritical corporate bullshit. The difference can be incredible between the public communication which usually sounds like a huge parody and the opinion people really share behind the curtain in more private meetings. Also being european you are usually used to be able to swear quite easily at work. What we perceive from the US culture that comes to us through movies/series would make us think it would be the same in the USA. However it is the opposite. People swear a lot less at work in the USA in my experience. At least online.

nozzlegear 2y ago
> Also being european you are usually used to be able to swear quite easily at work. What we perceive from the US culture that comes to us through movies/series would make us think it would be the same in the USA. However it is the opposite. People swear a lot less at work in the USA in my experience. At least online. In the US it's generally considered rude or "uncouth" to swear in the workplace, unless it's in a private conversation with another coworker who's okay with it.

ehnto 2y ago

> Adults use language in a less literal way than introverted engineers may be comfortable with. How condescending. "Adults" in other regions often do not have the facade of overenthusiasm that America/SV specifically has. It is a cultural quirk, not something specific to if someone's an introverted engineer or not. I've worked for SV companies as an outsider as well, and it was immediately noticeable. It was like everyone had a gun to their back and were being asked to say "I love the company!". It reminded me of a Japanese company, except without the deeper authenticity granted by older social protocols.