5 ms·

This cant really be a surprise, can it?

by mads 2y ago

whatsupdog 2y ago
[flagged]
gaganyaan 2y ago
Not so much a surprise as it is contentious. It makes it harder to accept the statement "Trans women are women", for example.
- shintoist 2y ago
  I think maybe you've understood. The study doesn't say that all birth-assigned male brains are larger than all birth-assigned female brains. There's still variety within the group, with lots of girls with larger brains than lots of boys.
- geewee 2y ago
  Does it? Nobody's arguing that trans women are female.
  - fibberish 2y ago
    Actually in recent years, there are many people who argue exactly that. Their claim being that taking medication to suppress testosterone and boost estrogen, as well as having various cosmetic surgeries (castration, inversion of penis, bone/cartilage/soft tissue reshaping of facial features), gives these males a "female body". Some of these males even claim to no longer be trans as a result of these surgical and pharmaceutical interventions, referring to themselves as "cis women".
- jose-incandenza 2y ago
  Or maybe it may be related to trans people having a brain structure more similar to the other sex at birth. The article talks about the median results, it doesn't state that all new born male brains have those features, but that the median brain have them.
  - fibberish 2y ago
    Having some brain measurements that are more similar to the opposite sex correlates with homosexuality, not trans. The initial studies on this didn't control for sexuality and mostly used subjects who were both homosexual and transsexual. In later studies that also measured sexuality, no correlation of sex atypical brain measurements with trans was found, only with homosexuality.
    - jose-incandenza 2y ago
      Could you link to these studies, please? I made a quick Google search and I found quite the opposite, two studies from 2021 and 2022 supporting brain differences on trans people from their biological sex brain. I find quite hard to believe that correlation between sexual attraction and brain structures.
- lapcat 2y ago
  > It makes it harder to accept the statement "Trans women are women", for example. This is a statement about social identity rather than biology. Transgender people have little or no interest in opening their gray matter or genitals to public scrutiny. It's about respecting the feelings and choices of the individual. Consider this analogy: suppose that we refused to call people "Christians" who self-identify as Christian but nonetheless ignore or even act in contraction to the teachings of Jesus Christ? As far as I can tell, this would apply to the majority of so-called Christians in the United States. (I personally refer to these people as "Old Testament Christians".)
  - fibberish 2y ago
    That entirely depends on whether one considers "woman" and "man" to be social identities that anyone of either sex can choose to adopt. Many people don't accept that belief, for a variety of reasons, such as viewing that belief as being based upon sexist stereotyping of women and men. Instead, they understand "woman" and "man" to be the words used to describe, respectively, female and male people who have reached adulthood. From that perspective, a "trans woman" is simply a man (male) who desires to be a woman (female).
    - lapcat 2y ago
      > That entirely depends on whether one considers "woman" and "man" to be social identities that anyone of either sex can choose to adopt. Yes, but debates over the meaning or usage of words are social/philosophical/political issues, not biological issues. > Many people don't accept that belief, for a variety of reasons, such as viewing that belief as being based upon sexist stereotyping of women and men. This claim seems questionable. As far as I can tell, the origin of the opposition is mainly religious, and it has come to be political as a consequence of the religious leanings of political parties. > Instead, they understand "woman" and "man" to be the words used to describe, respectively, female and male people who have reached adulthood. Yes, but it's unclear how a study of brain matter would change anyone's mind. After all, their definition of female and male always depended on genitals rather than brain composition.

This cant really be a surprise, can it?

by mads 2y ago

This cant really be a surprise, can it?

whatsupdog 2y ago

[flagged]

gaganyaan 2y ago

Not so much a surprise as it is contentious. It makes it harder to accept the statement "Trans women are women", for example.

shintoist 2y ago
I think maybe you've understood. The study doesn't say that all birth-assigned male brains are larger than all birth-assigned female brains. There's still variety within the group, with lots of girls with larger brains than lots of boys.
geewee 2y ago
Does it? Nobody's arguing that trans women are female.
- fibberish 2y ago
  Actually in recent years, there are many people who argue exactly that. Their claim being that taking medication to suppress testosterone and boost estrogen, as well as having various cosmetic surgeries (castration, inversion of penis, bone/cartilage/soft tissue reshaping of facial features), gives these males a "female body". Some of these males even claim to no longer be trans as a result of these surgical and pharmaceutical interventions, referring to themselves as "cis women".
jose-incandenza 2y ago
Or maybe it may be related to trans people having a brain structure more similar to the other sex at birth. The article talks about the median results, it doesn't state that all new born male brains have those features, but that the median brain have them.
- fibberish 2y ago
  Having some brain measurements that are more similar to the opposite sex correlates with homosexuality, not trans. The initial studies on this didn't control for sexuality and mostly used subjects who were both homosexual and transsexual. In later studies that also measured sexuality, no correlation of sex atypical brain measurements with trans was found, only with homosexuality.
  - jose-incandenza 2y ago
    Could you link to these studies, please? I made a quick Google search and I found quite the opposite, two studies from 2021 and 2022 supporting brain differences on trans people from their biological sex brain. I find quite hard to believe that correlation between sexual attraction and brain structures.
lapcat 2y ago
> It makes it harder to accept the statement "Trans women are women", for example. This is a statement about social identity rather than biology. Transgender people have little or no interest in opening their gray matter or genitals to public scrutiny. It's about respecting the feelings and choices of the individual. Consider this analogy: suppose that we refused to call people "Christians" who self-identify as Christian but nonetheless ignore or even act in contraction to the teachings of Jesus Christ? As far as I can tell, this would apply to the majority of so-called Christians in the United States. (I personally refer to these people as "Old Testament Christians".)
- fibberish 2y ago
  That entirely depends on whether one considers "woman" and "man" to be social identities that anyone of either sex can choose to adopt. Many people don't accept that belief, for a variety of reasons, such as viewing that belief as being based upon sexist stereotyping of women and men. Instead, they understand "woman" and "man" to be the words used to describe, respectively, female and male people who have reached adulthood. From that perspective, a "trans woman" is simply a man (male) who desires to be a woman (female).
  - lapcat 2y ago
    > That entirely depends on whether one considers "woman" and "man" to be social identities that anyone of either sex can choose to adopt. Yes, but debates over the meaning or usage of words are social/philosophical/political issues, not biological issues. > Many people don't accept that belief, for a variety of reasons, such as viewing that belief as being based upon sexist stereotyping of women and men. This claim seems questionable. As far as I can tell, the origin of the opposition is mainly religious, and it has come to be political as a consequence of the religious leanings of political parties. > Instead, they understand "woman" and "man" to be the words used to describe, respectively, female and male people who have reached adulthood. Yes, but it's unclear how a study of brain matter would change anyone's mind. After all, their definition of female and male always depended on genitals rather than brain composition.