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> And after that I could get a job, become a professor, turn my research into a startup etc. chances of getting professor-ship, tenure, or even a post-doc is c

> And after that I could get a job, become a professor, turn my research into a startup etc. chances of getting professor-ship, tenure, or even a post-doc is close to nil, due to extreme competition and limited seats. academia is the most slowly moving enterprise, some folks in their 80s still around, when young grads kicked out. getting a job after PhD may also be very hard. you would be very over-qualified, likely huge ego, and very narrow skillset in your domain, that is likely lagging behind industry. managerial (or even just "work at corporate") skills will be lacking. unemployment of PhDs is wildly high, even higher than if you did not do PhD. turning research into startup may be much harder than you would expect. milking government funding for years (and surviving jungle of academic politics to get its cut) is very different from market outside of it (i.e. venture capital, startups, tech, etc.), at the time you would want to make startup you would have to learn all from scratch, or even un-learn, as many would be detrimental. then there is toxic academic culture (funding, publishing, power dynamics). and in recent years academia become pit of wild woke left agenda, even more oil on fire. tbh, if you want to do something special, academia as we have it today is not the best place. if you still want to do it, guess best strategy is to "do it quick and get out". some smart people I know doing exactly that. doing accelerated PhD asap and getting the hell out of academia. (but then, it depends all on your professor power dynamics. in some places they would not let you graduate unless they wish so.)

andrepd 2y ago
> changes of getting professor-ship, tenure, or even a post-doc is close to nil What an extreme exaggeration. Yes academia is competitive, yes tenure is hard to get (obviously). But the chance is not "close to nil" for that at all, and it's certainly not "close to nil" for a postdoc lol. > getting a job after PhD may also be very hard. you would be very over-qualified, likely huge ego, and very narrow skillset in your domain, that is likely lagging behind industry. managerial (or even just "work at corporate") skills will be lacking. unemployment of PhDs is wildly high, even higher than if you did not do PhD. This is just not true x) There are no numbers where PhDs have worse unemployment than grads. Conversely, it does open a lot of doors for industry jobs (think ML, quant finance, to name a few)
InkCanon 2y ago
>getting a job in academia is really hard In my side of the world its a little bit better, the CS department has plans to double headcount in the next few years. They've got whole new faculty apartment buildings set up and everything, and the funding situation is quite generous (I'm told). Although I have also read in the USA the bar for even stipend paying masters/PhDs has gotten incredibly high. >Milking government funding for years There are special programs for startup oriented funds, so it's more like VC pitching to academics with equity free grants (although naturally there's the whole university research IP issue). But I'm quite willing to put up with it to do something meaningful (at a decent number of jobs you put up with it just to keep your job). I do keep an ear on startup-y things, I don't think I'll have it any easier than an undergrad but I think I won't be too disadvantaged. >Do it and get out I don't place too much emphasis on the PhD per se but the real value of it. >If you want to do something special academia is not the place Ten years ago tech would've been a good place. But now especially for a new graduate its a bloodbath, not to mention there's been huge layoffs. Academia seems like the better option nowadays.
jltsiren 2y ago
Getting a postdoc position is usually easier than getting into a PhD program in the same university, especially in top universities. And the chances of getting a tenure-track faculty position or similar are probably something like 1/3. The biggest obstacles to getting an academic job are personal. The jobs are wherever they are, and your (or your partner's) preferences cannot change that. If you are willing to relocate, your chances of getting a good academic job are much higher than if you restrict your search to a single city / region / country / continent.

andrepd 2y ago

> changes of getting professor-ship, tenure, or even a post-doc is close to nil What an extreme exaggeration. Yes academia is competitive, yes tenure is hard to get (obviously). But the chance is not "close to nil" for that at all, and it's certainly not "close to nil" for a postdoc lol. > getting a job after PhD may also be very hard. you would be very over-qualified, likely huge ego, and very narrow skillset in your domain, that is likely lagging behind industry. managerial (or even just "work at corporate") skills will be lacking. unemployment of PhDs is wildly high, even higher than if you did not do PhD. This is just not true x) There are no numbers where PhDs have worse unemployment than grads. Conversely, it does open a lot of doors for industry jobs (think ML, quant finance, to name a few)

InkCanon 2y ago

>getting a job in academia is really hard In my side of the world its a little bit better, the CS department has plans to double headcount in the next few years. They've got whole new faculty apartment buildings set up and everything, and the funding situation is quite generous (I'm told). Although I have also read in the USA the bar for even stipend paying masters/PhDs has gotten incredibly high. >Milking government funding for years There are special programs for startup oriented funds, so it's more like VC pitching to academics with equity free grants (although naturally there's the whole university research IP issue). But I'm quite willing to put up with it to do something meaningful (at a decent number of jobs you put up with it just to keep your job). I do keep an ear on startup-y things, I don't think I'll have it any easier than an undergrad but I think I won't be too disadvantaged. >Do it and get out I don't place too much emphasis on the PhD per se but the real value of it. >If you want to do something special academia is not the place Ten years ago tech would've been a good place. But now especially for a new graduate its a bloodbath, not to mention there's been huge layoffs. Academia seems like the better option nowadays.

jltsiren 2y ago

Getting a postdoc position is usually easier than getting into a PhD program in the same university, especially in top universities. And the chances of getting a tenure-track faculty position or similar are probably something like 1/3. The biggest obstacles to getting an academic job are personal. The jobs are wherever they are, and your (or your partner's) preferences cannot change that. If you are willing to relocate, your chances of getting a good academic job are much higher than if you restrict your search to a single city / region / country / continent.