4 ms·

If you join a gang you get protection from that gang. There are some gangs you can join where you get to kill people, with total impunity, if you're into that s

If you join a gang you get protection from that gang. There are some gangs you can join where you get to kill people, with total impunity, if you're into that sort of thing. Corporations are just another kind of gang. Don't let the legal sugar frosting fool you.

ajb 2y ago
Yes, but I don't think that's the full explanation. It seems to apply even to companies of modest size, which should not be able to intimidate.
- nonrandomstring 2y ago
  Definitely not the full explanation. I made a strident, blunt statement to move the discussion along. If you follow the Hobbsian thing the biggest gang is the state. And it's supposed to be "our" gang cos we vote for it and give tacit assent to a violent monopoly we call "the law". What's happened is the law has become very weak, and so has the democracy that keeps the biggest baddest gang on the side of 'the people'. I think US society, and small companies as you say, sense that the West has been "re-wilded". In the new frontier anything goes so long as you have the money. Aaron was a principled, smart and courageous dude, but he was acting without support from a strong enough base. The gang he thought he was in, MIT, betrayed him. (Chomsky has plenty of wisdom on what terrible cowards universities and academics really are.) The law that should have protected someone like Aaron was weak and compromised. It remains so. The same (lack of) state and laws are now protecting others doing the same things as Aaron, at an even bigger scale, and for money. At least that's how I read TFA.
- shwouchk 2y ago
  Devils advocate; In order for the elite to rule, they need a rich oligarchy of support. At least that’s how it’s always been. And you want cooperation from the mob, if you want the place in general to thrive - and you do, if you’re smart. Because your genes do. Look what eventually happens to the progeny of /most/, bad dictators these days, eventually. Using the biggest gang as protection for smaller, even tiny gangs kills two birds with one stone; Anyone can join the protection racket so the mob is pacified, and the biggest gang gets the support of the rich gangs, who get to sit in on the council. Terey pratchett’s genius is slowly revealed to me over the years)))
  - nonrandomstring 2y ago
    "biggest gang" is a natural order outcome and yes, Pratchett probably calls it better than Hobbes or political "scientists".
    - shwouchk 2y ago
      idk if it was sarcasm or not. yes of course it’s natural. it’s just that, with time, discworld universe starts to resemble the real world more and more to me, not a weird parody copy…
  - Terr_ 2y ago
    > Being an absolute ruler today was not as simple as people thought. At least, it was not simple if your ambitions included being an absolute ruler tomorrow. There were subtleties. Oh, you could order men to smash down doors and drag people off the dungeons without trial, but too much of that sort of thing lacked style and anyway was bad for business, habit-forming and very, very dangerous for your health. A thinking tyrant, it seemed to Vetinari, had a much harder job than a ruler raised to power by some idiot vote-yourself-rich system like democracy. At least they could tell the people he was their fault. -- Going Postal by Terry Pratchett

ajb 2y ago

Yes, but I don't think that's the full explanation. It seems to apply even to companies of modest size, which should not be able to intimidate.

nonrandomstring 2y ago
Definitely not the full explanation. I made a strident, blunt statement to move the discussion along. If you follow the Hobbsian thing the biggest gang is the state. And it's supposed to be "our" gang cos we vote for it and give tacit assent to a violent monopoly we call "the law". What's happened is the law has become very weak, and so has the democracy that keeps the biggest baddest gang on the side of 'the people'. I think US society, and small companies as you say, sense that the West has been "re-wilded". In the new frontier anything goes so long as you have the money. Aaron was a principled, smart and courageous dude, but he was acting without support from a strong enough base. The gang he thought he was in, MIT, betrayed him. (Chomsky has plenty of wisdom on what terrible cowards universities and academics really are.) The law that should have protected someone like Aaron was weak and compromised. It remains so. The same (lack of) state and laws are now protecting others doing the same things as Aaron, at an even bigger scale, and for money. At least that's how I read TFA.
shwouchk 2y ago
Devils advocate; In order for the elite to rule, they need a rich oligarchy of support. At least that’s how it’s always been. And you want cooperation from the mob, if you want the place in general to thrive - and you do, if you’re smart. Because your genes do. Look what eventually happens to the progeny of /most/, bad dictators these days, eventually. Using the biggest gang as protection for smaller, even tiny gangs kills two birds with one stone; Anyone can join the protection racket so the mob is pacified, and the biggest gang gets the support of the rich gangs, who get to sit in on the council. Terey pratchett’s genius is slowly revealed to me over the years)))
- nonrandomstring 2y ago
  "biggest gang" is a natural order outcome and yes, Pratchett probably calls it better than Hobbes or political "scientists".
  - shwouchk 2y ago
    idk if it was sarcasm or not. yes of course it’s natural. it’s just that, with time, discworld universe starts to resemble the real world more and more to me, not a weird parody copy…
- Terr_ 2y ago
  > Being an absolute ruler today was not as simple as people thought. At least, it was not simple if your ambitions included being an absolute ruler tomorrow. There were subtleties. Oh, you could order men to smash down doors and drag people off the dungeons without trial, but too much of that sort of thing lacked style and anyway was bad for business, habit-forming and very, very dangerous for your health. A thinking tyrant, it seemed to Vetinari, had a much harder job than a ruler raised to power by some idiot vote-yourself-rich system like democracy. At least they could tell the people he was their fault. -- Going Postal by Terry Pratchett