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China's DeepSeek Shows Why Trump's Trade War Will Be Hard to Win

2 points by SanjayMehta 2y ago

WantonQuantum 2y ago
There isn't a lot of technical information in the Bloomberg article but I found this info from Tom's Hardware: Deepseek trained its DeepSeek-V3 Mixture-of-Experts (MoE) language model with 671 billion parameters using a cluster containing 2,048 Nvidia H800 GPUs in just two months, which means 2.8 million GPU hours, according to its paper. For comparison, it took Meta 11 times more compute power (30.8 million GPU hours) to train its Llama 3 with 405 billion parameters using a cluster containing 16,384 H100 GPUs over the course of 54 days. https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/artificial-intelligence/chinese-ai-company-says-breakthroughs-enabled-creating-a-leading-edge-ai-model-with-11x-less-compute-deepseeks-optimizations-highlight-limits-of-us-sanctions https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/artificial-intell...
- fspeech 2y ago
  You can get the technical report from Deepseek by Googling. Their reports are very well regarded.
hunglee2 2y ago
Trump did start it but Biden continued and extended it. The neoconservative Project for a New American Century - for a long time a marginal position - has become consensus. This is America's Trade War
- Terr_ 2y ago
  Continued stress with China aside, there was de-escalation when it came to the EU, and not vocally and intermittently threatening our biggest trading partners--Canada and Mexico--is also important. The strength of any country's position in a trade-fight depends on whether they have options and can trade with somebody else for the things they need most. In contrast, Trump's approach of having the US piss off our 4 biggest trading partners simultaneously is both terrible and terribly stupid. Even just the threats (or blathering trial-ballons of "very fine people are telling me I oughta") will still affect companies' choices of how and where to structure their supply-chains.
  - fspeech 2y ago
    It's a new world where the capital owners just want more dollars. The trade is to sell dollars to those who comply with US's wishes.
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
I think a trade war with China is needed even at a cost, to secure the free world. It should go beyond tariffs - sanction China for all the asymmetric warfare, start encroaching on their territory (like artificial islands), and destroy their military manufacturing facilities directly. They won’t do anything more than they already do in return. Enough with letting the CCP gain power - they’re authoritarian tyrants that threaten many free societies.

2 points by SanjayMehta 2y ago

There isn't a lot of technical information in the Bloomberg article but I found this info from Tom's Hardware: Deepseek trained its DeepSeek-V3 Mixture-of-Experts (MoE) language model with 671 billion parameters using a cluster containing 2,048 Nvidia H800 GPUs in just two months, which means 2.8 million GPU hours, according to its paper. For comparison, it took Meta 11 times more compute power (30.8 million GPU hours) to train its Llama 3 with 405 billion parameters using a cluster containing 16,384 H100 GPUs over the course of 54 days. https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/artificial-intelligence/chinese-ai-company-says-breakthroughs-enabled-creating-a-leading-edge-ai-model-with-11x-less-compute-deepseeks-optimizations-highlight-limits-of-us-sanctions https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/artificial-intell...

fspeech 2y ago
You can get the technical report from Deepseek by Googling. Their reports are very well regarded.

hunglee2 2y ago

Trump did start it but Biden continued and extended it. The neoconservative Project for a New American Century - for a long time a marginal position - has become consensus. This is America's Trade War

Terr_ 2y ago
Continued stress with China aside, there was de-escalation when it came to the EU, and not vocally and intermittently threatening our biggest trading partners--Canada and Mexico--is also important. The strength of any country's position in a trade-fight depends on whether they have options and can trade with somebody else for the things they need most. In contrast, Trump's approach of having the US piss off our 4 biggest trading partners simultaneously is both terrible and terribly stupid. Even just the threats (or blathering trial-ballons of "very fine people are telling me I oughta") will still affect companies' choices of how and where to structure their supply-chains.
- fspeech 2y ago
  It's a new world where the capital owners just want more dollars. The trade is to sell dollars to those who comply with US's wishes.

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago

I think a trade war with China is needed even at a cost, to secure the free world. It should go beyond tariffs - sanction China for all the asymmetric warfare, start encroaching on their territory (like artificial islands), and destroy their military manufacturing facilities directly. They won’t do anything more than they already do in return. Enough with letting the CCP gain power - they’re authoritarian tyrants that threaten many free societies.