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> In this case I don’t think it’s a lack of pressure to join, but the introduction of supplementary technologies that poorly simulate aspects of community Ther

> In this case I don’t think it’s a lack of pressure to join, but the introduction of supplementary technologies that poorly simulate aspects of community There are two big cultural shifts I have in mind here: the "liberalization" of American society (divorce is more common, LGBT acceptance (and in general, the freedom to have a non-hetero life)). hetero relationships come with an "escalator" that ends in having a family, etc. But as long as there's a socially accepted alternative to this lifestyle, it has to justify itself against the alternative. (Imo, this is the real reason why LGBT was stigmatized for so long) also religion dying out, less pressure to buy into religion, that's one big third space that's gone

BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
>this is the real reason why LGBT was stigmatized for so long I mean, kinda. I think it was stigmatized for so long because, on a farm, extra hands are very useful, so children are very important to have. You also need to make lots of em because a large portion die. Social norms thus evolved to disdain anything that prevented the production of offspring, eg being gay. Notable here is that it’s an effective strategy in a pre-industrial agricultural environment, not in our current environment, and that it causes immense suffering for those unlucky enough to be born non-heterosexual when in place. >religion dying removes third space I mean, yeah? I’m gonna be honest, when you say this, I get the impression you didn’t pay attention to my comment, because this an observation that everyone makes and doesn’t really relate to what I said. People often talk about these processes as though they are the beginning rather than the end. As though we just started making divorce more accessible one day, and that’s why everything is broken. What this ignores that all of these social changes stem from a combination of previous social changes, in this example that would be suffrage, and technological/environmental changes. It may be, that for our particular environment, one wherein physicality has become relatively unimportant, equality and free association between the sexes is a desirable thing. At the same time, there are myriad unpredictable consequences to altering our environment in the first place, but this process is headless and will continue to occur whether we like it or not.

BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago

>this is the real reason why LGBT was stigmatized for so long I mean, kinda. I think it was stigmatized for so long because, on a farm, extra hands are very useful, so children are very important to have. You also need to make lots of em because a large portion die. Social norms thus evolved to disdain anything that prevented the production of offspring, eg being gay. Notable here is that it’s an effective strategy in a pre-industrial agricultural environment, not in our current environment, and that it causes immense suffering for those unlucky enough to be born non-heterosexual when in place. >religion dying removes third space I mean, yeah? I’m gonna be honest, when you say this, I get the impression you didn’t pay attention to my comment, because this an observation that everyone makes and doesn’t really relate to what I said. People often talk about these processes as though they are the beginning rather than the end. As though we just started making divorce more accessible one day, and that’s why everything is broken. What this ignores that all of these social changes stem from a combination of previous social changes, in this example that would be suffrage, and technological/environmental changes. It may be, that for our particular environment, one wherein physicality has become relatively unimportant, equality and free association between the sexes is a desirable thing. At the same time, there are myriad unpredictable consequences to altering our environment in the first place, but this process is headless and will continue to occur whether we like it or not.