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> GenZ isnt interested in learning to drive AT ALL. The statistics do not bear this out. In 2012 41% of people under 19 had a license. In 2022 49% of people

> GenZ isnt interested in learning to drive AT ALL. The statistics do not bear this out. In 2012 41% of people under 19 had a license. In 2022 49% of people under 19 had a license. However, it should be noted, that the total number of people under 19 has decreased since then, which is a normal population phenomenon. Failing to account for this can produce false trends in the analysis. > Hence all cars tending towards SUVs. I think government regulations and worldwide markets have more to do with this than the imputed preferences of a single generation in the US. > But I think most drivers today aren’t into that I think most drivers have never been into that, as I think most people see their car as a utility, and not a high performance entertainment option. > Hence mustang was a goner no matter what. I think producing a 315 horse power 10 speed "EcoBoost" compromise to get to a whopping 26mpg was the death knell. It's a car that has no practical value in today's market. I don't exactly know who it's made for other than ignorant first time buyers. EDIT: Since the site thinks I am "posting too fast." https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2012/ https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2012/ https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2022/ https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2022/ "Licensed drivers, by sex and percentage in each age group"

echoangle 2y ago
> The statistics do not bear this out. In 2012 41% of people under 19 had a license. In 2022 49% of people under 19 had a license. Maybe not Gen Z specifically but the general trend absolutely exists. „The percentage of 19-year-olds with a driver’s license dropped steadily from 87.3% in 1983 to 68.7% in 2022, according to most recent data from the Federal Highway Administration.“ https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/teens-drivers-license-car-sales-595c521d https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/teens-drivers-license-car-sale... This also shows different numbers compared to your comment, where did you get those values?
- philjohn 2y ago
  Well when you look at the cost of insurance, learning to drive, and cars themselves, when housing is more expensive than ever, and many jobs accessible to 19 year olds don't pay particularly well, is this surprising? The assertion that it's "Gen Z don't want to learn to drive" might be wrong, could it instead be "Gen Z can't afford to drive"? My 17 year old son just passed his test in the UK (in a manual, none of that automatic rubbish!) and the costs are astronomical, and out of reach to many.
  - echoangle 2y ago
    Right, I wouldn’t agree that they necessarily aren’t interested, I was just clarifying that something is causing them to get less driver licenses, and this is reflected in statistics.
jauntywundrkind 2y ago
Very few people got licenses during COVID (2021) then after COVID a lot of people did (2022) then the number of people getting licenses decreased. If you are looking at a spike in 2022 as proof that the number of interested people isn't going down, I hope you have better evidence than comparing 2021 and 2022!
- timewizard 2y ago
  The cohort is those under 19. COVID happened 4 years ago. Those 16 year olds are 20 year olds now and I do not believe they impact this comparison.
  - jauntywundrkind 2y ago
    Your arguments to refute that gen-z drives less circles around this statement you made: > In 2012 41% of people under 19 had a license. In 2022 49% of people under 19 had a license I have already addressed why this is entirely predictable & the worst dumbest possible indicator one could use, because it looks specifically at and compares COVID and non-COVID years. It looks like you are getting tripped up & confused with your reply here. It seems to be arguing something else entirely, and seems non-sequitorial.
    - timewizard 2y ago
      > you are getting tripped up & confused Slow down there. You suggested I compared 2021 and 2022. Look more closely and you will see that I have compared 2012 to 2022. > why this is entirely predictable 2012 (12 years ago): 41.1% 2013 (11 years ago): 42.4% 2014 (10 years ago): 40.2% 2015 ( 9 years ago): 40.4% 2016 ( 8 years ago): 41.4% 2017 ( 7 years ago): 41.5% 2018 ( 6 years ago): 41.1% 2019 ( 5 years ago): 34.4% * 2020 ( 4 years ago): 32.8% * 2021 ( 3 years ago): 39.2% 2022 ( 2 years ago): 49.7% * The COVID years. So now that I've done the work for you, you can also see your assertion is not correct, yes?
      - jauntywundrkind 2y ago
Zak 2y ago
> I don't exactly know who it's made for other than ignorant first time buyers. I've rented a couple Ecoboost Mustangs, and I see the appeal. 315 HP is enough. It's faster than a Mustang Cobra from the 1990s or Mustang GT from the early 2000s. With the premium interior, the car is a surprisingly nice place to be for two adults - about as nice as the last BMW I rented. The back seat is usable in a pinch, and cargo space is adequate for daily driving and road trips. Maybe the fuel economy could be a little better, but it's easy to do worse. If the steering feel wasn't nonexistent even on the hardest setting, I think I might want one. Sales seem to be OK: 44000 cars a year for an an enthusiast-oriented car is a significant number.

echoangle 2y ago

> The statistics do not bear this out. In 2012 41% of people under 19 had a license. In 2022 49% of people under 19 had a license. Maybe not Gen Z specifically but the general trend absolutely exists. „The percentage of 19-year-olds with a driver’s license dropped steadily from 87.3% in 1983 to 68.7% in 2022, according to most recent data from the Federal Highway Administration.“ https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/teens-drivers-license-car-sales-595c521d https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/teens-drivers-license-car-sale... This also shows different numbers compared to your comment, where did you get those values?

philjohn 2y ago
Well when you look at the cost of insurance, learning to drive, and cars themselves, when housing is more expensive than ever, and many jobs accessible to 19 year olds don't pay particularly well, is this surprising? The assertion that it's "Gen Z don't want to learn to drive" might be wrong, could it instead be "Gen Z can't afford to drive"? My 17 year old son just passed his test in the UK (in a manual, none of that automatic rubbish!) and the costs are astronomical, and out of reach to many.
- echoangle 2y ago
  Right, I wouldn’t agree that they necessarily aren’t interested, I was just clarifying that something is causing them to get less driver licenses, and this is reflected in statistics.

jauntywundrkind 2y ago

Very few people got licenses during COVID (2021) then after COVID a lot of people did (2022) then the number of people getting licenses decreased. If you are looking at a spike in 2022 as proof that the number of interested people isn't going down, I hope you have better evidence than comparing 2021 and 2022!

timewizard 2y ago
The cohort is those under 19. COVID happened 4 years ago. Those 16 year olds are 20 year olds now and I do not believe they impact this comparison.
- jauntywundrkind 2y ago
  Your arguments to refute that gen-z drives less circles around this statement you made: > In 2012 41% of people under 19 had a license. In 2022 49% of people under 19 had a license I have already addressed why this is entirely predictable & the worst dumbest possible indicator one could use, because it looks specifically at and compares COVID and non-COVID years. It looks like you are getting tripped up & confused with your reply here. It seems to be arguing something else entirely, and seems non-sequitorial.
  - timewizard 2y ago
    > you are getting tripped up & confused Slow down there. You suggested I compared 2021 and 2022. Look more closely and you will see that I have compared 2012 to 2022. > why this is entirely predictable 2012 (12 years ago): 41.1% 2013 (11 years ago): 42.4% 2014 (10 years ago): 40.2% 2015 ( 9 years ago): 40.4% 2016 ( 8 years ago): 41.4% 2017 ( 7 years ago): 41.5% 2018 ( 6 years ago): 41.1% 2019 ( 5 years ago): 34.4% * 2020 ( 4 years ago): 32.8% * 2021 ( 3 years ago): 39.2% 2022 ( 2 years ago): 49.7% * The COVID years. So now that I've done the work for you, you can also see your assertion is not correct, yes?
    - jauntywundrkind 2y ago

Zak 2y ago

> I don't exactly know who it's made for other than ignorant first time buyers. I've rented a couple Ecoboost Mustangs, and I see the appeal. 315 HP is enough. It's faster than a Mustang Cobra from the 1990s or Mustang GT from the early 2000s. With the premium interior, the car is a surprisingly nice place to be for two adults - about as nice as the last BMW I rented. The back seat is usable in a pinch, and cargo space is adequate for daily driving and road trips. Maybe the fuel economy could be a little better, but it's easy to do worse. If the steering feel wasn't nonexistent even on the hardest setting, I think I might want one. Sales seem to be OK: 44000 cars a year for an an enthusiast-oriented car is a significant number.