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Pony cars have been dying for decades. GenZ isnt interested in learning to drive AT ALL. I’m sure most young adults are most interested in a comfortable spacio

Pony cars have been dying for decades. GenZ isnt interested in learning to drive AT ALL. I’m sure most young adults are most interested in a comfortable spacious box with lots of screens. Hence all cars tending towards SUVs. Teslas are famous for their torque, which is expected with electric engines, but how are their handling and brakes — sports car like or more luxury SUV floating on a car? I grew up driving a Trans Am (dreamed of a KITT!), and the brakes and the grip on the road was awesome. I’ve never driven a BMW or Porsche, but I expect they are even more gripping. But I think most drivers today aren’t into that, and more interested in having the car drive for them. Hence mustang was a goner no matter what.

throwaway48476 2y ago
Pony cars are probably correlated with military recruitment.
Cumpiler69 2y ago
>GenZ isnt interested in learning to drive AT ALL. Only those in dense urban areas with great public transport.
timewizard 2y ago
> GenZ isnt interested in learning to drive AT ALL. The statistics do not bear this out. In 2012 41% of people under 19 had a license. In 2022 49% of people under 19 had a license. However, it should be noted, that the total number of people under 19 has decreased since then, which is a normal population phenomenon. Failing to account for this can produce false trends in the analysis. > Hence all cars tending towards SUVs. I think government regulations and worldwide markets have more to do with this than the imputed preferences of a single generation in the US. > But I think most drivers today aren’t into that I think most drivers have never been into that, as I think most people see their car as a utility, and not a high performance entertainment option. > Hence mustang was a goner no matter what. I think producing a 315 horse power 10 speed "EcoBoost" compromise to get to a whopping 26mpg was the death knell. It's a car that has no practical value in today's market. I don't exactly know who it's made for other than ignorant first time buyers. EDIT: Since the site thinks I am "posting too fast." https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2012/ https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2012/ https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2022/ https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2022/ "Licensed drivers, by sex and percentage in each age group"
- echoangle 2y ago
  > The statistics do not bear this out. In 2012 41% of people under 19 had a license. In 2022 49% of people under 19 had a license. Maybe not Gen Z specifically but the general trend absolutely exists. „The percentage of 19-year-olds with a driver’s license dropped steadily from 87.3% in 1983 to 68.7% in 2022, according to most recent data from the Federal Highway Administration.“ https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/teens-drivers-license-car-sales-595c521d https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/teens-drivers-license-car-sale... This also shows different numbers compared to your comment, where did you get those values?
  - philjohn 2y ago
    Well when you look at the cost of insurance, learning to drive, and cars themselves, when housing is more expensive than ever, and many jobs accessible to 19 year olds don't pay particularly well, is this surprising? The assertion that it's "Gen Z don't want to learn to drive" might be wrong, could it instead be "Gen Z can't afford to drive"? My 17 year old son just passed his test in the UK (in a manual, none of that automatic rubbish!) and the costs are astronomical, and out of reach to many.
    - echoangle 2y ago
      Right, I wouldn’t agree that they necessarily aren’t interested, I was just clarifying that something is causing them to get less driver licenses, and this is reflected in statistics.
- jauntywundrkind 2y ago
  Very few people got licenses during COVID (2021) then after COVID a lot of people did (2022) then the number of people getting licenses decreased. If you are looking at a spike in 2022 as proof that the number of interested people isn't going down, I hope you have better evidence than comparing 2021 and 2022!
  - timewizard 2y ago
    The cohort is those under 19. COVID happened 4 years ago. Those 16 year olds are 20 year olds now and I do not believe they impact this comparison.
cosmic_cheese 2y ago
As a middle of the road millenial I only learned to drive recently and drive only as much as I absolutely have to. I don’t find it enjoyable unless there’s practically no traffic on my route, which is often not the case. My preferred type of car is a small, efficient, highly practical hatch like the Honda Fit but those largely aren’t sold in the US anymore.
- dotancohen 2y ago
  Then you're clearly not the Mustang demographic.
  - cosmic_cheese 2y ago
    No doubt, but it helps drive home OP’s point about the Mustang demographic being small and continuing to shrink.
    - wakawaka28 2y ago
      I don't think the demographic for sports cars is shrinking. Mustangs have always filling a small niche, a subset of the sports car market. The statement in the title may be true but it is meaningless in terms of trends, especially as manufacturers are forced to produce and sell cars that are objectively worse for most people.
      - nytesky 2y ago
        I’m a GenX and just about every high school student at least admired a Mustang, especially the 1st generation version and the retro inspired 4th gen in the mid 90s. Nowadays I am pretty sure my kids have hardly ever seen a coupe let alone a sports car like that.
        wakawaka28 2y ago
        I think we are about the same age, and it was the kind of car that you'd get if you wanted to be recognized as you drove around. I only saw one regularly within several miles of my house and I knew who owned it. Kids now might feel like they can't afford these cars, and that prices are out of control (they are). But a base model Mustang brand new is only about $32k and you can find them used. Meanwhile a base model Honda Civic is $25k (not the lowest economy model from Honda but close). So people in the market for a new car could probably afford a Mustang, and might choose to not buy them because of build quality or thinking it's too flashy.
bluedino 2y ago
Yup. Camaro was canceled last year.
pkulak 2y ago
Good riddance to people who think they “know how to drive”. If they did that stuff on private tracks, fine, but in my experience they prefer to use the public road network, which is obviously built and managed for transportation only.
- tadfisher 2y ago
  It's still fun to push it (a little) on back roads, where the primary danger is to yourself. Just don't cross the double yellows and don't overtake your braking zone, e.g. speeding around blind corners. And I highly suggest a day of performance driving lessons from your local HPDE club. It will help you understand what is going on with the car that makes it lose traction, and to unlearn some bad habits when that happens.
- verandaguy 2y ago
  I think there's two kinds of "knows how to drive." - There's the people you're talking about, who treat public roads like their own playgrounds with little regard for public safety or road laws. - There's also people who will keep an eye on their surroundings, understand how weather affects driving performance (acceleration, braking, cornering) and when to use or not use automation like adaptive cruise As long as we've got a car-centric society in North America I'm more than fine with more drivers falling into that second bucket but having to deal with roads in Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal very regularly, most people just don't pay attention on the road.
jauntywundrkind 2y ago
Many car enthusiasts/gear heads used to be tinkerers & modifiers, used to have intimate knowledge of cars. Cars of today are far more complicated systems, where there's no longer clear mechanical linkages connecting components together but instead opaque unobservable digital systems weaving the together. The way cars are made has killed the ability to be a knowledgeable useful enthusiast. The car is just a commodity now. And sure, you can spend a lot of money to have your car modded for performance or looks, but there's so much less of a diy culture that genuinely knows cars. The industry has superficialized out its best fans. I hope computing can a good similar fates, somehow (doesn't look great right now!). We don't even need material inputs to improve our machines; software gives us vast flexibility. If we can maintain some cultures beyond base consumerism.
kllrnohj 2y ago
> Pony cars have been dying for decades only if your definition of "decades" is ~5 years? Otherwise the resurgence of the pony car was only like 20 years ago in the first place (5th gen mustang & charger 2005, Challenger 2008, camero zeta 2010).

throwaway48476 2y ago

Pony cars are probably correlated with military recruitment.

Cumpiler69 2y ago

>GenZ isnt interested in learning to drive AT ALL. Only those in dense urban areas with great public transport.

timewizard 2y ago

> GenZ isnt interested in learning to drive AT ALL. The statistics do not bear this out. In 2012 41% of people under 19 had a license. In 2022 49% of people under 19 had a license. However, it should be noted, that the total number of people under 19 has decreased since then, which is a normal population phenomenon. Failing to account for this can produce false trends in the analysis. > Hence all cars tending towards SUVs. I think government regulations and worldwide markets have more to do with this than the imputed preferences of a single generation in the US. > But I think most drivers today aren’t into that I think most drivers have never been into that, as I think most people see their car as a utility, and not a high performance entertainment option. > Hence mustang was a goner no matter what. I think producing a 315 horse power 10 speed "EcoBoost" compromise to get to a whopping 26mpg was the death knell. It's a car that has no practical value in today's market. I don't exactly know who it's made for other than ignorant first time buyers. EDIT: Since the site thinks I am "posting too fast." https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2012/ https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2012/ https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2022/ https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2022/ "Licensed drivers, by sex and percentage in each age group"

echoangle 2y ago
> The statistics do not bear this out. In 2012 41% of people under 19 had a license. In 2022 49% of people under 19 had a license. Maybe not Gen Z specifically but the general trend absolutely exists. „The percentage of 19-year-olds with a driver’s license dropped steadily from 87.3% in 1983 to 68.7% in 2022, according to most recent data from the Federal Highway Administration.“ https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/teens-drivers-license-car-sales-595c521d https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/teens-drivers-license-car-sale... This also shows different numbers compared to your comment, where did you get those values?
- philjohn 2y ago
  Well when you look at the cost of insurance, learning to drive, and cars themselves, when housing is more expensive than ever, and many jobs accessible to 19 year olds don't pay particularly well, is this surprising? The assertion that it's "Gen Z don't want to learn to drive" might be wrong, could it instead be "Gen Z can't afford to drive"? My 17 year old son just passed his test in the UK (in a manual, none of that automatic rubbish!) and the costs are astronomical, and out of reach to many.
  - echoangle 2y ago
    Right, I wouldn’t agree that they necessarily aren’t interested, I was just clarifying that something is causing them to get less driver licenses, and this is reflected in statistics.
jauntywundrkind 2y ago
Very few people got licenses during COVID (2021) then after COVID a lot of people did (2022) then the number of people getting licenses decreased. If you are looking at a spike in 2022 as proof that the number of interested people isn't going down, I hope you have better evidence than comparing 2021 and 2022!
- timewizard 2y ago
  The cohort is those under 19. COVID happened 4 years ago. Those 16 year olds are 20 year olds now and I do not believe they impact this comparison.

cosmic_cheese 2y ago

As a middle of the road millenial I only learned to drive recently and drive only as much as I absolutely have to. I don’t find it enjoyable unless there’s practically no traffic on my route, which is often not the case. My preferred type of car is a small, efficient, highly practical hatch like the Honda Fit but those largely aren’t sold in the US anymore.

dotancohen 2y ago
Then you're clearly not the Mustang demographic.
- cosmic_cheese 2y ago
  No doubt, but it helps drive home OP’s point about the Mustang demographic being small and continuing to shrink.
  - wakawaka28 2y ago
    I don't think the demographic for sports cars is shrinking. Mustangs have always filling a small niche, a subset of the sports car market. The statement in the title may be true but it is meaningless in terms of trends, especially as manufacturers are forced to produce and sell cars that are objectively worse for most people.
    - nytesky 2y ago
      I’m a GenX and just about every high school student at least admired a Mustang, especially the 1st generation version and the retro inspired 4th gen in the mid 90s. Nowadays I am pretty sure my kids have hardly ever seen a coupe let alone a sports car like that.
      - wakawaka28 2y ago
        I think we are about the same age, and it was the kind of car that you'd get if you wanted to be recognized as you drove around. I only saw one regularly within several miles of my house and I knew who owned it. Kids now might feel like they can't afford these cars, and that prices are out of control (they are). But a base model Mustang brand new is only about $32k and you can find them used. Meanwhile a base model Honda Civic is $25k (not the lowest economy model from Honda but close). So people in the market for a new car could probably afford a Mustang, and might choose to not buy them because of build quality or thinking it's too flashy.

bluedino 2y ago

Yup. Camaro was canceled last year.

pkulak 2y ago

Good riddance to people who think they “know how to drive”. If they did that stuff on private tracks, fine, but in my experience they prefer to use the public road network, which is obviously built and managed for transportation only.

tadfisher 2y ago
It's still fun to push it (a little) on back roads, where the primary danger is to yourself. Just don't cross the double yellows and don't overtake your braking zone, e.g. speeding around blind corners. And I highly suggest a day of performance driving lessons from your local HPDE club. It will help you understand what is going on with the car that makes it lose traction, and to unlearn some bad habits when that happens.
verandaguy 2y ago
I think there's two kinds of "knows how to drive." - There's the people you're talking about, who treat public roads like their own playgrounds with little regard for public safety or road laws. - There's also people who will keep an eye on their surroundings, understand how weather affects driving performance (acceleration, braking, cornering) and when to use or not use automation like adaptive cruise As long as we've got a car-centric society in North America I'm more than fine with more drivers falling into that second bucket but having to deal with roads in Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal very regularly, most people just don't pay attention on the road.

jauntywundrkind 2y ago

Many car enthusiasts/gear heads used to be tinkerers & modifiers, used to have intimate knowledge of cars. Cars of today are far more complicated systems, where there's no longer clear mechanical linkages connecting components together but instead opaque unobservable digital systems weaving the together. The way cars are made has killed the ability to be a knowledgeable useful enthusiast. The car is just a commodity now. And sure, you can spend a lot of money to have your car modded for performance or looks, but there's so much less of a diy culture that genuinely knows cars. The industry has superficialized out its best fans. I hope computing can a good similar fates, somehow (doesn't look great right now!). We don't even need material inputs to improve our machines; software gives us vast flexibility. If we can maintain some cultures beyond base consumerism.

kllrnohj 2y ago

> Pony cars have been dying for decades only if your definition of "decades" is ~5 years? Otherwise the resurgence of the pony car was only like 20 years ago in the first place (5th gen mustang & charger 2005, Challenger 2008, camero zeta 2010).