4 ms·

The gas car is an impractical vanity car, the electric one is a small SUV. Why is this comparison interesting?

linotype 2y ago
Probably because of how much grief the Mach E got when it was first launched. “That’s not a mustang”, “it’s going to flop”, etc.
- bigfatkitten 2y ago
  It's an overall decent car even if Ford gave it a stupid name.
  - dotancohen 2y ago
    They could have called it the GT-64, seeing how it is 64 inches tall and out-accelerates the GT-40.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- bigstrat2003 2y ago
  I mean... it's not a Mustang. It has absolutely none of the Mustang ethos, and it was just an attempt by Ford to bolster the marketing of their new product. I think it was perfectly reasonable for people to object to that nonsense bit of branding.
  - RajT88 2y ago
    Yeah see, I do not even desire to have a mustang but appreciate the few V6 models I have driven. They do not go anywhere particularly fast, but they do so with great noise and style. The idea of an electric mustang is not a non-starter. Electric vehicles can be fast as hell, if not terribly noisy. But the fact that the electric mustang looks more like a Nissan Rogue than a Mustang car always threw me. I guess my big take-away hearing that the eMustang sold well is that most people do not care much about cars compared to car guys.
- timewizard 2y ago
  > how much grief Otherwise known as "market feedback." If only the company processed it correctly they might have been able to convince people to fork over medium 5 figures to get one.
  - linotype 2y ago
    I didn’t say it was right or wrong. Just explained why it’s surprising that it’s sold more to some people.
- bluedino 2y ago
  It flopped
  - dralley 2y ago
    We're in a thread about how it's outselling the original. Regardless of the silliness of the branding, it clearly didn't flop.
    - bluedino 2y ago
      Right, but only in recent quarters because of heavy incentives. It's been a disaster otherwise. https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/slowest-selling-ev-in-us-mach-e.33817/ https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/slowest-selling-ev-i... the Ford Mach E is now the slowest selling EV in US and 3rd slowest selling vehicle of any kind with a 362 market day supply on dealer lots. https://qz.com/ford-mustang-mach-e-sales-price-cut-discount-1851386648 https://qz.com/ford-mustang-mach-e-sales-price-cut-discount-... the increase in Mach-E sales didn’t really start until late February when it announced price cuts of up to $8,100 on leftover 2023 Mach-Es. When the discounts hit, demand skyrocketed. Since then sales of the electric crossover have nearly tripled. Plus, 'regular' Mustang sales are down big time as well. Last year was the worst sales numbers in the history of the car (60 years)
    - thedrbrian 2y ago
      I wouldn't call their electric division a success if they're writing off nearly 2 billion dollarydoos in investments https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/aug/21/ford-writes-off-19bn-as-it-cancels-plans-for-all-electric-large-suv-in-us https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/aug/21/for... about $6,700 per EV sold in 2024.
jader201 2y ago
I’m rooting for EV’s over ICE cars all the way (I own one), but I agree — I always found it a bit weird/misleading that the Mach-E carries the “Mustang” name, when they have so little in common. I feel like it’s just marketing to the “cool” demographic, similar to how Tesla is (or at least used to be) a big status symbol. These two cars are targeting a completely different demographic and should not be compared/considered in competition. > Who said Ford’s electric crossover SUV wasn’t a real Mustang? The Mach-E outsold the gas-powered Ford Mustang for the first time last year as one of the top-selling EVs in the US. Just because the vehicle carries the name and outsold the original Mustang still does not make it a “real Mustang”. Again, I’m glad it’s selling well (and also glad it’s selling better than the Mustang). I just don’t think the two vehicles can be compared.
- dotancohen 2y ago
  Real Mustang owner here, at least if you consider the '69 Mustang and the '72 Mustang to be Real Mustangs. I don't have them anymore, but they are forever burned in my driving habits. What makes a Real Mustang? Head-turning looks? Acceleration? The Mach-E has both in spades. It's a new implementation of the Mustang formula, but it works. It out-Mustangs any parameter that a Real Mustang owner will tell you is the essence of his beloved pony car.
  - bluedino 2y ago
    It's not an inexpensive RWD car with a V8, for the most part. It's an SUV that can't out-run a Tesla. It's barely faster than the 4-cylinder Mustang (Except for the most recent model (2024) that you can finally get a performance add-on with ($995). The previous model only lets you accelerate for about five seconds under full power)
    - dotancohen 2y ago
      > It's not an inexpensive RWD car with a V8, for the most part. Neither are most other cars that you consider a Real Mustang. The V8 never outsold the smaller-engine models.
nytesky 2y ago
Pony cars have been dying for decades. GenZ isnt interested in learning to drive AT ALL. I’m sure most young adults are most interested in a comfortable spacious box with lots of screens. Hence all cars tending towards SUVs. Teslas are famous for their torque, which is expected with electric engines, but how are their handling and brakes — sports car like or more luxury SUV floating on a car? I grew up driving a Trans Am (dreamed of a KITT!), and the brakes and the grip on the road was awesome. I’ve never driven a BMW or Porsche, but I expect they are even more gripping. But I think most drivers today aren’t into that, and more interested in having the car drive for them. Hence mustang was a goner no matter what.
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  Pony cars are probably correlated with military recruitment.
- Cumpiler69 2y ago
  >GenZ isnt interested in learning to drive AT ALL. Only those in dense urban areas with great public transport.
- timewizard 2y ago
  > GenZ isnt interested in learning to drive AT ALL. The statistics do not bear this out. In 2012 41% of people under 19 had a license. In 2022 49% of people under 19 had a license. However, it should be noted, that the total number of people under 19 has decreased since then, which is a normal population phenomenon. Failing to account for this can produce false trends in the analysis. > Hence all cars tending towards SUVs. I think government regulations and worldwide markets have more to do with this than the imputed preferences of a single generation in the US. > But I think most drivers today aren’t into that I think most drivers have never been into that, as I think most people see their car as a utility, and not a high performance entertainment option. > Hence mustang was a goner no matter what. I think producing a 315 horse power 10 speed "EcoBoost" compromise to get to a whopping 26mpg was the death knell. It's a car that has no practical value in today's market. I don't exactly know who it's made for other than ignorant first time buyers. EDIT: Since the site thinks I am "posting too fast." https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2012/ https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2012/ https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2022/ https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2022/ "Licensed drivers, by sex and percentage in each age group"
summeroflove20 2y ago
[dead]
pg5 2y ago
It's interesting because the EV was made fun of relentlessly when it came out, with Ford fans saying that it would be a flop. Also, I'm biased, but I have to disagree with the "impractical vanity car" part. The current Mustang coupe is super fun to drive and affordable - the trunk is huge and it is quite comfortable for two people (even 3). The coyote v8 is a marvel of engineering - 460 HP with instant torque, but you can get 29 MPG with it on the highway (if you drive calmly). The turbo 4 is even more efficient. To get anything comparable from European or Japanese coupes, you have to pay twice as much. I apologize for the rambling.
- qingcharles 2y ago
  No apology needed. The current muscle/pony cars are amazing vehicles. Mustang and Camaro are both hugely reliable, modern, efficient cars wrapped up to look tough, and in their base models they are ridiculously good value. Pretty much the only thing against them is, as you say, they are only practical for two people.
- thot_experiment 2y ago
  I don't think that the torque and horsepower are relevant when you're talking about practicality. I think the Mustang is good value for what it is, IF you care about it's branding and that sort of thing is valued in your social circle. It is absolutely a vanity car and if you're buying a car based on performance there's no reason to get a Mustang, any second hand electric coupe will annihilate it on performance per dollar, and in a straight line. The only reason to get it is because of what it represents. That all being said I don't get the Mustang. If I were buying a car to have fun there are so many that appeal to me more than it does. My ideal car has bugs on the side windows.
  - pg5 2y ago
    I don't think anyone buys a Mustang due to the brand...I mean it's a Ford. Mustangs have a 4 second 0-60 and great handling (if you know what you're doing, they rival cars 3X the price on the famous tracks of the world). Don't really get the comparison to a used EV - I guess you're right about straight line speed, but a used EV is pretty sketchy due to battery longevity and crappy reliability from the brands that can actually achieve this straight line speed. For someone buying new, there isn't much left with comparable performance, considering the camaro no longer exists. Maybe the Nissan Z or the Supra, but those have had crazy dealer markups. If you know such a car in the 40-60k range, I'd love to know!
pclmulqdq 2y ago
In other words, the big story here is the decline of the mustang as a status symbol, not the rise of the Mach E (or electric vehicles in general).

Probably because of how much grief the Mach E got when it was first launched. “That’s not a mustang”, “it’s going to flop”, etc.

bigfatkitten 2y ago
It's an overall decent car even if Ford gave it a stupid name.
- dotancohen 2y ago
  They could have called it the GT-64, seeing how it is 64 inches tall and out-accelerates the GT-40.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
bigstrat2003 2y ago
I mean... it's not a Mustang. It has absolutely none of the Mustang ethos, and it was just an attempt by Ford to bolster the marketing of their new product. I think it was perfectly reasonable for people to object to that nonsense bit of branding.
- RajT88 2y ago
  Yeah see, I do not even desire to have a mustang but appreciate the few V6 models I have driven. They do not go anywhere particularly fast, but they do so with great noise and style. The idea of an electric mustang is not a non-starter. Electric vehicles can be fast as hell, if not terribly noisy. But the fact that the electric mustang looks more like a Nissan Rogue than a Mustang car always threw me. I guess my big take-away hearing that the eMustang sold well is that most people do not care much about cars compared to car guys.
timewizard 2y ago
> how much grief Otherwise known as "market feedback." If only the company processed it correctly they might have been able to convince people to fork over medium 5 figures to get one.
- linotype 2y ago
  I didn’t say it was right or wrong. Just explained why it’s surprising that it’s sold more to some people.
bluedino 2y ago
It flopped
- dralley 2y ago
  We're in a thread about how it's outselling the original. Regardless of the silliness of the branding, it clearly didn't flop.
  - bluedino 2y ago
    Right, but only in recent quarters because of heavy incentives. It's been a disaster otherwise. https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/slowest-selling-ev-in-us-mach-e.33817/ https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/slowest-selling-ev-i... the Ford Mach E is now the slowest selling EV in US and 3rd slowest selling vehicle of any kind with a 362 market day supply on dealer lots. https://qz.com/ford-mustang-mach-e-sales-price-cut-discount-1851386648 https://qz.com/ford-mustang-mach-e-sales-price-cut-discount-... the increase in Mach-E sales didn’t really start until late February when it announced price cuts of up to $8,100 on leftover 2023 Mach-Es. When the discounts hit, demand skyrocketed. Since then sales of the electric crossover have nearly tripled. Plus, 'regular' Mustang sales are down big time as well. Last year was the worst sales numbers in the history of the car (60 years)
  - thedrbrian 2y ago
    I wouldn't call their electric division a success if they're writing off nearly 2 billion dollarydoos in investments https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/aug/21/ford-writes-off-19bn-as-it-cancels-plans-for-all-electric-large-suv-in-us https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/aug/21/for... about $6,700 per EV sold in 2024.

jader201 2y ago

I’m rooting for EV’s over ICE cars all the way (I own one), but I agree — I always found it a bit weird/misleading that the Mach-E carries the “Mustang” name, when they have so little in common. I feel like it’s just marketing to the “cool” demographic, similar to how Tesla is (or at least used to be) a big status symbol. These two cars are targeting a completely different demographic and should not be compared/considered in competition. > Who said Ford’s electric crossover SUV wasn’t a real Mustang? The Mach-E outsold the gas-powered Ford Mustang for the first time last year as one of the top-selling EVs in the US. Just because the vehicle carries the name and outsold the original Mustang still does not make it a “real Mustang”. Again, I’m glad it’s selling well (and also glad it’s selling better than the Mustang). I just don’t think the two vehicles can be compared.

dotancohen 2y ago
Real Mustang owner here, at least if you consider the '69 Mustang and the '72 Mustang to be Real Mustangs. I don't have them anymore, but they are forever burned in my driving habits. What makes a Real Mustang? Head-turning looks? Acceleration? The Mach-E has both in spades. It's a new implementation of the Mustang formula, but it works. It out-Mustangs any parameter that a Real Mustang owner will tell you is the essence of his beloved pony car.
- bluedino 2y ago
  It's not an inexpensive RWD car with a V8, for the most part. It's an SUV that can't out-run a Tesla. It's barely faster than the 4-cylinder Mustang (Except for the most recent model (2024) that you can finally get a performance add-on with ($995). The previous model only lets you accelerate for about five seconds under full power)
  - dotancohen 2y ago
    > It's not an inexpensive RWD car with a V8, for the most part. Neither are most other cars that you consider a Real Mustang. The V8 never outsold the smaller-engine models.

nytesky 2y ago

Pony cars have been dying for decades. GenZ isnt interested in learning to drive AT ALL. I’m sure most young adults are most interested in a comfortable spacious box with lots of screens. Hence all cars tending towards SUVs. Teslas are famous for their torque, which is expected with electric engines, but how are their handling and brakes — sports car like or more luxury SUV floating on a car? I grew up driving a Trans Am (dreamed of a KITT!), and the brakes and the grip on the road was awesome. I’ve never driven a BMW or Porsche, but I expect they are even more gripping. But I think most drivers today aren’t into that, and more interested in having the car drive for them. Hence mustang was a goner no matter what.

throwaway48476 2y ago
Pony cars are probably correlated with military recruitment.
Cumpiler69 2y ago
>GenZ isnt interested in learning to drive AT ALL. Only those in dense urban areas with great public transport.
timewizard 2y ago
> GenZ isnt interested in learning to drive AT ALL. The statistics do not bear this out. In 2012 41% of people under 19 had a license. In 2022 49% of people under 19 had a license. However, it should be noted, that the total number of people under 19 has decreased since then, which is a normal population phenomenon. Failing to account for this can produce false trends in the analysis. > Hence all cars tending towards SUVs. I think government regulations and worldwide markets have more to do with this than the imputed preferences of a single generation in the US. > But I think most drivers today aren’t into that I think most drivers have never been into that, as I think most people see their car as a utility, and not a high performance entertainment option. > Hence mustang was a goner no matter what. I think producing a 315 horse power 10 speed "EcoBoost" compromise to get to a whopping 26mpg was the death knell. It's a car that has no practical value in today's market. I don't exactly know who it's made for other than ignorant first time buyers. EDIT: Since the site thinks I am "posting too fast." https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2012/ https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2012/ https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2022/ https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2022/ "Licensed drivers, by sex and percentage in each age group"

summeroflove20 2y ago

[dead]

pg5 2y ago

It's interesting because the EV was made fun of relentlessly when it came out, with Ford fans saying that it would be a flop. Also, I'm biased, but I have to disagree with the "impractical vanity car" part. The current Mustang coupe is super fun to drive and affordable - the trunk is huge and it is quite comfortable for two people (even 3). The coyote v8 is a marvel of engineering - 460 HP with instant torque, but you can get 29 MPG with it on the highway (if you drive calmly). The turbo 4 is even more efficient. To get anything comparable from European or Japanese coupes, you have to pay twice as much. I apologize for the rambling.

qingcharles 2y ago
No apology needed. The current muscle/pony cars are amazing vehicles. Mustang and Camaro are both hugely reliable, modern, efficient cars wrapped up to look tough, and in their base models they are ridiculously good value. Pretty much the only thing against them is, as you say, they are only practical for two people.
thot_experiment 2y ago
I don't think that the torque and horsepower are relevant when you're talking about practicality. I think the Mustang is good value for what it is, IF you care about it's branding and that sort of thing is valued in your social circle. It is absolutely a vanity car and if you're buying a car based on performance there's no reason to get a Mustang, any second hand electric coupe will annihilate it on performance per dollar, and in a straight line. The only reason to get it is because of what it represents. That all being said I don't get the Mustang. If I were buying a car to have fun there are so many that appeal to me more than it does. My ideal car has bugs on the side windows.
- pg5 2y ago
  I don't think anyone buys a Mustang due to the brand...I mean it's a Ford. Mustangs have a 4 second 0-60 and great handling (if you know what you're doing, they rival cars 3X the price on the famous tracks of the world). Don't really get the comparison to a used EV - I guess you're right about straight line speed, but a used EV is pretty sketchy due to battery longevity and crappy reliability from the brands that can actually achieve this straight line speed. For someone buying new, there isn't much left with comparable performance, considering the camaro no longer exists. Maybe the Nissan Z or the Supra, but those have had crazy dealer markups. If you know such a car in the 40-60k range, I'd love to know!

pclmulqdq 2y ago

In other words, the big story here is the decline of the mustang as a status symbol, not the rise of the Mach E (or electric vehicles in general).