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How is civilian oversight security theater? Also, I dislike the use of civilian here. Cops aren't troops.

gjsman-1000 2y ago
Imagine if you had antivirus for your server. The antivirus is only updated once every 12 months, using discounted old licenses bought from eBay. Am I hating antivirus? Are we better for saying the servers are secured? No. The “civilian oversight” is a security blanket that has not demonstrated effectiveness.
- santoshalper 2y ago
  What on earth are you talking about? This doesn't make any sense.
  - gjsman-1000 2y ago
    You’re assuming that the community oversight is automatically effective. I answer that it needs to demonstrate effectiveness, or otherwise, police can use the claim of being overseen to get away with even more nonsense. At least with police overseeing themselves, the flaw is well understood. It’s better to have a flawed system but with well understood flaws; than a new theoretically good one with unknown flaws.
    - kcplate 2y ago
      > You’re assuming that the community oversight is automatically effective. This is the assumption people are making on this thread but no one has demonstrated how or if they are effective. I am not necessarily against civilian oversight but unless a civilian oversight board has the power to strip qualified immunity from an officer , it seems to me that it would be a pointless exercise. I think a more effective oversight would be eliminating automatic qualified immunity in favor of qualified immunity being earned after an incident. A cop that has to justify their action creates a level of self oversight. Also I feel like it might help curb what I believe is the real problem we see in policing today…it attracts way too many people who have a “bully” personality type. Literally every person/kid I knew growing up who I would have characterized as a bully at some point looked to law enforcement as a career.
howard941 2y ago
No, but they are paramilitary forces.

Imagine if you had antivirus for your server. The antivirus is only updated once every 12 months, using discounted old licenses bought from eBay. Am I hating antivirus? Are we better for saying the servers are secured? No. The “civilian oversight” is a security blanket that has not demonstrated effectiveness.

santoshalper 2y ago
What on earth are you talking about? This doesn't make any sense.
- gjsman-1000 2y ago
  You’re assuming that the community oversight is automatically effective. I answer that it needs to demonstrate effectiveness, or otherwise, police can use the claim of being overseen to get away with even more nonsense. At least with police overseeing themselves, the flaw is well understood. It’s better to have a flawed system but with well understood flaws; than a new theoretically good one with unknown flaws.
  - kcplate 2y ago
    > You’re assuming that the community oversight is automatically effective. This is the assumption people are making on this thread but no one has demonstrated how or if they are effective. I am not necessarily against civilian oversight but unless a civilian oversight board has the power to strip qualified immunity from an officer , it seems to me that it would be a pointless exercise. I think a more effective oversight would be eliminating automatic qualified immunity in favor of qualified immunity being earned after an incident. A cop that has to justify their action creates a level of self oversight. Also I feel like it might help curb what I believe is the real problem we see in policing today…it attracts way too many people who have a “bully” personality type. Literally every person/kid I knew growing up who I would have characterized as a bully at some point looked to law enforcement as a career.

howard941 2y ago

No, but they are paramilitary forces.