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Good. I don’t support security theater.

by gjsman-1000 2y ago

mcmcmc 2y ago
What about this is security theater? This is about accountability for misbehaving cops.
hooverd 2y ago
How is civilian oversight security theater? Also, I dislike the use of civilian here. Cops aren't troops.
- gjsman-1000 2y ago
  Imagine if you had antivirus for your server. The antivirus is only updated once every 12 months, using discounted old licenses bought from eBay. Am I hating antivirus? Are we better for saying the servers are secured? No. The “civilian oversight” is a security blanket that has not demonstrated effectiveness.
  - santoshalper 2y ago
    What on earth are you talking about? This doesn't make any sense.
    - gjsman-1000 2y ago
      You’re assuming that the community oversight is automatically effective. I answer that it needs to demonstrate effectiveness, or otherwise, police can use the claim of being overseen to get away with even more nonsense. At least with police overseeing themselves, the flaw is well understood. It’s better to have a flawed system but with well understood flaws; than a new theoretically good one with unknown flaws.
      - kcplate 2y ago
        > You’re assuming that the community oversight is automatically effective. This is the assumption people are making on this thread but no one has demonstrated how or if they are effective. I am not necessarily against civilian oversight but unless a civilian oversight board has the power to strip qualified immunity from an officer , it seems to me that it would be a pointless exercise. I think a more effective oversight would be eliminating automatic qualified immunity in favor of qualified immunity being earned after an incident. A cop that has to justify their action creates a level of self oversight. Also I feel like it might help curb what I believe is the real problem we see in policing today…it attracts way too many people who have a “bully” personality type. Literally every person/kid I knew growing up who I would have characterized as a bully at some point looked to law enforcement as a career.
- howard941 2y ago
  No, but they are paramilitary forces.
ipython 2y ago
What could go wrong? Qualified immunity plus zero oversight and military style equipment- no way that the police officers wouldn’t feel emboldened to overstep. https://www.tspd.us/swat https://www.tspd.us/swat
lupusreal 2y ago
The nominal oversight is being rolled into the police organizations. More theater, not less.
- gjsman-1000 2y ago
  Better that police overseeing themselves is well understood and a claim that could be made in court; than an ineffective community oversight system providing cover. Nothing is more potentially dangerous than an organization which claims that they have a 3rd party oversight system, so they can be trusted, with this claim then being taken at face value.
  - bdangubic 2y ago
    self-oversight is always the best one ;)
    - readthenotes1 2y ago
      It works well in finance, and any of the professions susceptible to pride, greed, lust, anger, gluttony, envy, or sloth. It's why referees in pro sports are on their way out. /s

Good. I don’t support security theater.

mcmcmc 2y ago

What about this is security theater? This is about accountability for misbehaving cops.

hooverd 2y ago

How is civilian oversight security theater? Also, I dislike the use of civilian here. Cops aren't troops.

gjsman-1000 2y ago
Imagine if you had antivirus for your server. The antivirus is only updated once every 12 months, using discounted old licenses bought from eBay. Am I hating antivirus? Are we better for saying the servers are secured? No. The “civilian oversight” is a security blanket that has not demonstrated effectiveness.
- santoshalper 2y ago
  What on earth are you talking about? This doesn't make any sense.
  - gjsman-1000 2y ago
    You’re assuming that the community oversight is automatically effective. I answer that it needs to demonstrate effectiveness, or otherwise, police can use the claim of being overseen to get away with even more nonsense. At least with police overseeing themselves, the flaw is well understood. It’s better to have a flawed system but with well understood flaws; than a new theoretically good one with unknown flaws.
    - kcplate 2y ago
      > You’re assuming that the community oversight is automatically effective. This is the assumption people are making on this thread but no one has demonstrated how or if they are effective. I am not necessarily against civilian oversight but unless a civilian oversight board has the power to strip qualified immunity from an officer , it seems to me that it would be a pointless exercise. I think a more effective oversight would be eliminating automatic qualified immunity in favor of qualified immunity being earned after an incident. A cop that has to justify their action creates a level of self oversight. Also I feel like it might help curb what I believe is the real problem we see in policing today…it attracts way too many people who have a “bully” personality type. Literally every person/kid I knew growing up who I would have characterized as a bully at some point looked to law enforcement as a career.
howard941 2y ago
No, but they are paramilitary forces.

ipython 2y ago

What could go wrong? Qualified immunity plus zero oversight and military style equipment- no way that the police officers wouldn’t feel emboldened to overstep. https://www.tspd.us/swat https://www.tspd.us/swat

lupusreal 2y ago

The nominal oversight is being rolled into the police organizations. More theater, not less.

gjsman-1000 2y ago
Better that police overseeing themselves is well understood and a claim that could be made in court; than an ineffective community oversight system providing cover. Nothing is more potentially dangerous than an organization which claims that they have a 3rd party oversight system, so they can be trusted, with this claim then being taken at face value.
- bdangubic 2y ago
  self-oversight is always the best one ;)
  - readthenotes1 2y ago
    It works well in finance, and any of the professions susceptible to pride, greed, lust, anger, gluttony, envy, or sloth. It's why referees in pro sports are on their way out. /s