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TLDR: Events like this aren't really a wildfire problem, even if they provided some initial sparks. It's an urban/developed-area problem, and we need to look at

by Terr_ 2y ago

TLDR: Events like this aren't really a wildfire problem, even if they provided some initial sparks. It's an urban/developed-area problem, and we need to look at those layouts and building materials etc.

onecommentman 2y ago
“Some initial sparks” is a gross under-characterization by the original author. “Almost all of the millions and millions of burning embers as flying ignition sources, one the three necessary elements of the fire triad” is more accurate to my ears. Without the wildfires providing the ignition, those millions of ignition sources for urban fires simply aren’t there, until an urban conflagration starts creating them for themselves. But there is no major urban conflagration without these initial embers from wildfires…except in certain exceptional scenarios (of which the LA fires and most others cited by the author are not one). Firebombing, coordinated arson, industrial accident…. Which is why almost all urban areas in the US without a wildfire risk have had no urban conflagrations in, say, the last 100 years. Seems to me suppressing the fire triad element of sources of ignition by clearing shrubs and trees is much more economical and less disruptive than multidecade urban redevelopment. On a going forward basis, more thought could be given to newer fire-aware building, if it doesn’t take the bureaucratically clogged housing approval process in CA into full blockage. (What’s the chance of that?) This article sounds either like a grift or AI or both.
- defrost 2y ago
  It meanders as an article, it does repeatedly return to the core message: This fundamental misunderstanding has likewise led to a misunderstanding of prevention. No longer is it a matter of preventing wildfires but instead preventing points of ignition within communities by employing “home-hardening” strategies — proper landscaping, fire-resistant siding — and enjoining neighbors in collective efforts such as brush clearing. This aligns with the post urban fire recommendations in Canberra, Australia some years back - hardened homes, clean gutters, fewer easily ignited shrubs close to flammable buildings, etc. Wildfires will happen, embers will rain from the sky .. how prepared is your home to be ignition resistant when that happens?
- Flatcircle 2y ago
  Felt a little like AI to me as well
hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
Yeah, this article made me feel a little vindicated about this comment I made a couple days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42676441 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42676441 Especially in Altadena (most of which is in a flat valley), it was very clear this was an urban fire - tons of pictures with every house burnt to the ground, but trees standing all around unscathed. I am a little worried about how things get rebuilt, given the political incentives are now to make rebuilding as easy (read: cheaply) as possible. I'm all for waiving a lot of the environmental rules that are just a Byzantine labyrinth that are primarily used by neighbors to restrict growth they don't want, but I think that replacing Altadena with a bunch of densely packed, wood framed, shingled roofs is just adding kindling, literally, to the next fire.

by Terr_ 2y ago

onecommentman 2y ago

“Some initial sparks” is a gross under-characterization by the original author. “Almost all of the millions and millions of burning embers as flying ignition sources, one the three necessary elements of the fire triad” is more accurate to my ears. Without the wildfires providing the ignition, those millions of ignition sources for urban fires simply aren’t there, until an urban conflagration starts creating them for themselves. But there is no major urban conflagration without these initial embers from wildfires…except in certain exceptional scenarios (of which the LA fires and most others cited by the author are not one). Firebombing, coordinated arson, industrial accident…. Which is why almost all urban areas in the US without a wildfire risk have had no urban conflagrations in, say, the last 100 years. Seems to me suppressing the fire triad element of sources of ignition by clearing shrubs and trees is much more economical and less disruptive than multidecade urban redevelopment. On a going forward basis, more thought could be given to newer fire-aware building, if it doesn’t take the bureaucratically clogged housing approval process in CA into full blockage. (What’s the chance of that?) This article sounds either like a grift or AI or both.

defrost 2y ago
It meanders as an article, it does repeatedly return to the core message: This fundamental misunderstanding has likewise led to a misunderstanding of prevention. No longer is it a matter of preventing wildfires but instead preventing points of ignition within communities by employing “home-hardening” strategies — proper landscaping, fire-resistant siding — and enjoining neighbors in collective efforts such as brush clearing. This aligns with the post urban fire recommendations in Canberra, Australia some years back - hardened homes, clean gutters, fewer easily ignited shrubs close to flammable buildings, etc. Wildfires will happen, embers will rain from the sky .. how prepared is your home to be ignition resistant when that happens?
Flatcircle 2y ago
Felt a little like AI to me as well

hn_throwaway_99 2y ago

Yeah, this article made me feel a little vindicated about this comment I made a couple days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42676441 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42676441 Especially in Altadena (most of which is in a flat valley), it was very clear this was an urban fire - tons of pictures with every house burnt to the ground, but trees standing all around unscathed. I am a little worried about how things get rebuilt, given the political incentives are now to make rebuilding as easy (read: cheaply) as possible. I'm all for waiving a lot of the environmental rules that are just a Byzantine labyrinth that are primarily used by neighbors to restrict growth they don't want, but I think that replacing Altadena with a bunch of densely packed, wood framed, shingled roofs is just adding kindling, literally, to the next fire.