5 ms·

A well deserved slap in the face of the English language, delivered with splendor.

nine_k 2y ago
But it says little about the English language proper, things like syntax, the system of verb tenses, or even phonetics. It's only about the spelling, and specifically the hodgepodge of various historical spellings, and the tendency to import a word with its foreign spelling and foreign pronunciation. Chunks of Romance languages, mostly Latin and French, stick out as especially noticeable: things like "bona fide", or "corps", or even "beauty". Most languages in which the connection between the written form and the sound is straightforward, like Spanish or Japanese, import foreign words by writing down the sound and ignoring the original spelling. The problem is that in Britain, French was directly spoken and written for centuries, and for a person who speaks and writes French daily, it would be rather jarring to write "bohteh" instead of "beauté" or "ko" instead of "corps". To have a taste of that, trai tu rait inglish fonetikalli. It's an attempt to avoid that what has driven us to the current situation.
dinkumthinkum 2y ago
Isn’t wild that if you said that sentence about why other language, particular, a non-Western one, this would be considered hate speech? It’s interesting how language works.
- ben_w 2y ago
  People are generally given a free pass to criticise their own in-group. There's a famous Chinese poem demonstrating an issue in the Chinese language, IIRC spelling reform; but were I to speak it (I can't*) I suspect anyone who couldn't speak Chinese would think I was mocking the language despite the original being from a native speaker: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion-Eating_Poet_in_the_Stone_Den https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion-Eating_Poet_in_the_Stone_... * I lack the skill to tell if this is correct pronunciation: https://youtu.be/vExjnn_3ep4?si=hbg3b3niapF6X4TH https://youtu.be/vExjnn_3ep4?si=hbg3b3niapF6X4TH
  - dinkumthinkum 2y ago
    Well, my point is more that you can specifically criticize Western culture even in degrading terms from any group, and it is fine.
    - ben_w 2y ago
      Who, of those here critiquing the English language, isn't part of Western culture? Or of the other possible category of "anglosphere"?
- DontchaKnowit 2y ago
  No, it really wouldnt be. Dont be so sensitive. And honestly I agree with your broader point that everyone gets a pass to hate on "western" (the way your using means the englishing speaking first world) culture, but is very sensitive and careful about insulting other cultures. I just dont think this is an example of that

But it says little about the English language proper, things like syntax, the system of verb tenses, or even phonetics. It's only about the spelling, and specifically the hodgepodge of various historical spellings, and the tendency to import a word with its foreign spelling and foreign pronunciation. Chunks of Romance languages, mostly Latin and French, stick out as especially noticeable: things like "bona fide", or "corps", or even "beauty". Most languages in which the connection between the written form and the sound is straightforward, like Spanish or Japanese, import foreign words by writing down the sound and ignoring the original spelling. The problem is that in Britain, French was directly spoken and written for centuries, and for a person who speaks and writes French daily, it would be rather jarring to write "bohteh" instead of "beauté" or "ko" instead of "corps". To have a taste of that, trai tu rait inglish fonetikalli. It's an attempt to avoid that what has driven us to the current situation.

dinkumthinkum 2y ago

Isn’t wild that if you said that sentence about why other language, particular, a non-Western one, this would be considered hate speech? It’s interesting how language works.

ben_w 2y ago
People are generally given a free pass to criticise their own in-group. There's a famous Chinese poem demonstrating an issue in the Chinese language, IIRC spelling reform; but were I to speak it (I can't*) I suspect anyone who couldn't speak Chinese would think I was mocking the language despite the original being from a native speaker: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion-Eating_Poet_in_the_Stone_Den https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion-Eating_Poet_in_the_Stone_... * I lack the skill to tell if this is correct pronunciation: https://youtu.be/vExjnn_3ep4?si=hbg3b3niapF6X4TH https://youtu.be/vExjnn_3ep4?si=hbg3b3niapF6X4TH
- dinkumthinkum 2y ago
  Well, my point is more that you can specifically criticize Western culture even in degrading terms from any group, and it is fine.
  - ben_w 2y ago
    Who, of those here critiquing the English language, isn't part of Western culture? Or of the other possible category of "anglosphere"?
DontchaKnowit 2y ago
No, it really wouldnt be. Dont be so sensitive. And honestly I agree with your broader point that everyone gets a pass to hate on "western" (the way your using means the englishing speaking first world) culture, but is very sensitive and careful about insulting other cultures. I just dont think this is an example of that