3 ms·

The point of all the tiny European states is that they're blood and soil ethnostates. A lot of people got killed to establish that point.

hjgjhyuhy 2y ago
In some countries yes, others not. Nobody got killed to make Nordic countries ”ethnostates”. It’s just that not that many people wanted to live so far north. In fact, in Finland the largest ethnic minority (Swedish) on average do much better than ethnic Finns. Sami minority got discriminated admittedly, but not violently persecuted.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Nobody got killed to make Nordic countries ”ethnostates” Literally the Vikings [1]. > in Finland the largest ethnic minority (Swedish) on average do much better than ethnic Finn Yes [2]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Norway https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Norwa... [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish%E2%80%93Novgorodian_wars https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish%E2%80%93Novgorodian_...
- nordic-ethnos 2y ago
  That’s gotta be among the most revisionist takes I’ve ever seen. The nordic countries subjected hundreds of thousands of individuals from mostly lower class backgrounds to mandatory sterilizations over a period of decades in order to secure the population distribution they have now. https://www.euronews.com/2023/06/08/how-did-sweden-sterilise-up-to-30000-people-against-their-will-in-the-cause-of-eugenics https://www.euronews.com/2023/06/08/how-did-sweden-sterilise... https://nordics.info/show/artikel/eugenics-in-the-nordic-countries https://nordics.info/show/artikel/eugenics-in-the-nordic-cou...
dotancohen 2y ago
As a non-European I'd like to read more. What exactly should I be googling to get the real history and not the clean history that is commonly told?
- esafak 2y ago
  Read about the French Revolution and the origin of the nation state. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_state
  - rnabsv 2y ago
    So, Germany previously had Prussia, Bavaria and the rest. They were separate kingdoms, but all ethnically German. There is something to be said of for the individual cultures being even stronger during those times. Perhaps the formation of the German nation state was a counter reaction to the Napoleonic wars? Anyway, this has little to do with immigration from all over the world: All these kingdoms already had the same language and largely the same culture.
  - dotancohen 2y ago
    Thank you. I wouldn't exactly call France a tiny state. Are there any others that I should specifically be looking at? The Europeans pride themselves as being quote unquote civilized people, did they not have uniform ethnicities within their borders before the founding of their states? If not, then what did define those borders? Have states such as France ethnically cleansed other peoples from within their borders? If so, then why isn't that mentioned in the well-known histories?
    - esafak 2y ago
      Killing is not the only way to ethnically homogenize a population. Other instruments are suppression of ethnic identity, deportation and encouragement of emigration. The nation state of Turkey's establishment out of the ethnically diverse Ottoman Empire deployed all of the above.
      - lazide 2y ago
        Pretty much still does against the Kurds
      - dotancohen 2y ago

hjgjhyuhy 2y ago

In some countries yes, others not. Nobody got killed to make Nordic countries ”ethnostates”. It’s just that not that many people wanted to live so far north. In fact, in Finland the largest ethnic minority (Swedish) on average do much better than ethnic Finns. Sami minority got discriminated admittedly, but not violently persecuted.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> Nobody got killed to make Nordic countries ”ethnostates” Literally the Vikings [1]. > in Finland the largest ethnic minority (Swedish) on average do much better than ethnic Finn Yes [2]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Norway https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Norwa... [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish%E2%80%93Novgorodian_wars https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish%E2%80%93Novgorodian_...
nordic-ethnos 2y ago
That’s gotta be among the most revisionist takes I’ve ever seen. The nordic countries subjected hundreds of thousands of individuals from mostly lower class backgrounds to mandatory sterilizations over a period of decades in order to secure the population distribution they have now. https://www.euronews.com/2023/06/08/how-did-sweden-sterilise-up-to-30000-people-against-their-will-in-the-cause-of-eugenics https://www.euronews.com/2023/06/08/how-did-sweden-sterilise... https://nordics.info/show/artikel/eugenics-in-the-nordic-countries https://nordics.info/show/artikel/eugenics-in-the-nordic-cou...

dotancohen 2y ago

As a non-European I'd like to read more. What exactly should I be googling to get the real history and not the clean history that is commonly told?

esafak 2y ago
Read about the French Revolution and the origin of the nation state. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_state
- rnabsv 2y ago
  So, Germany previously had Prussia, Bavaria and the rest. They were separate kingdoms, but all ethnically German. There is something to be said of for the individual cultures being even stronger during those times. Perhaps the formation of the German nation state was a counter reaction to the Napoleonic wars? Anyway, this has little to do with immigration from all over the world: All these kingdoms already had the same language and largely the same culture.
- dotancohen 2y ago
  Thank you. I wouldn't exactly call France a tiny state. Are there any others that I should specifically be looking at? The Europeans pride themselves as being quote unquote civilized people, did they not have uniform ethnicities within their borders before the founding of their states? If not, then what did define those borders? Have states such as France ethnically cleansed other peoples from within their borders? If so, then why isn't that mentioned in the well-known histories?
  - esafak 2y ago
    Killing is not the only way to ethnically homogenize a population. Other instruments are suppression of ethnic identity, deportation and encouragement of emigration. The nation state of Turkey's establishment out of the ethnically diverse Ottoman Empire deployed all of the above.
    - lazide 2y ago
      Pretty much still does against the Kurds
    - dotancohen 2y ago