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Or maybe theres just less people from certain cultures that want to be a software developer. Whats next, you want to force more white people to become develope

Or maybe theres just less people from certain cultures that want to be a software developer. Whats next, you want to force more white people to become developers because ethnic Indian devs are becoming too populous in the industry. In my country most of the blacks are in London and so we have no black devs in our office. We arent going to go out and find some to hire.

matsemann 2y ago
> Whats next, you want to force more white people to become developers because ethnic Indian devs are becoming too populous in the industry. You managed to sneak in both a slippery slope fallacy and a straw man in the same argument here. No one said what you're claiming.
- ArthurStacks 2y ago
  I never claimed he did say that.
n4r9 2y ago
I decided to look up the demographics on Wikipedia. London does indeed have a higher percentage black population than the rest of the country, but Manchester and Birmingham are very similar, whilst other major cities where you're likely to find the most tech companies have around 5%. London: 54% white, 14% black Manchester: 57% white, 12% black Birmingham: 49% white, 11% black Bristol: 81% white, 6% black Leeds: 79% white, 6% black Sheffield: 80% white, 5% black Liverpool: 84% white. 4% black Note: this excludes mixed black and white backgrounds, which make up a decent proportion of people who would describe themselves as black. So if equal numbers of black people went into tech, and companies hired without bias, then you'd expect at least 1 in 20 people in most tech companies to be black. You're right that fewer people from black backgrounds are applying to tech jobs, although I think it's a leap to say it's because they "don't want to". It could just as easily be that they find it intimidating, or don't believe they can do it, or they're socialised into other careers. As a company or hiring manager, if you do come across black applicants, it may well be the case that they have had to battle against a lot to get where they are, which shows grit, enthusiasm, and initiative.
- ArthurStacks 2y ago
  I'm in the business of making money, not one of getting blacks into software. If they don't want to come for interviews then I'm not going out and finding them. Also using those stats is flawed because the majority of the people working in those cities don't live in them. The real number (of what % blacks constitute the available workforce within commute distance) will be less than 1% in most of them.
  - n4r9 2y ago
    > I'm in the business of making money Respectfully, there is always a trade-off between how much money you make and how positive a social impact you have. > The real number (of what % blacks constitute the available workforce within commute distance) will be less than 1% Yes, as I said, it's not the case that black people are as likely to apply for tech jobs. And I agree with you that it's not your responsibility to make that happen. The problem is systemic and goes back to education and environment. However, your tone is a little disconcerting as it seems to suggest that you think everything is fine just the way it is.
    - ArthurStacks 2y ago
      That is you being ignorant of other cultures and countries and assuming things work like they do in yours. The few blacks that are in almost all those cities you mention recieve the same education, are the same environment and socioeconomic group as the whites. It is also a US obsession with US black people and their problems, and thinking everyone should join in on it. This is why when they tried to bring all the George Floyd protest stuff to this region, they were politely told where they could stick it. There are already enough social problems that should get attention and don't, that affect the people living here. Rather than protests about something that has no relevance to anyone living here.
      - n4r9 2y ago
        Sorry if I misled. I'm UK born and bred, grew up an hour from London, and have been living in London for nearly a decade. I've seen the racial divide between private and state schools, and I've seen how the inner city schools split into the good ones in affluent mostly white areas vs the poor ones in struggling ethnic minority areas. There's some in the middle obviously, but there's a definite split. In the former, teachers will advise which Oxbridge college you should apply to. In the latter, teachers will have a strategy for how to respond if someone brings a weapon into class. Black people might technically follow the same syllabus, but the environment is totally different.

matsemann 2y ago

> Whats next, you want to force more white people to become developers because ethnic Indian devs are becoming too populous in the industry. You managed to sneak in both a slippery slope fallacy and a straw man in the same argument here. No one said what you're claiming.

ArthurStacks 2y ago
I never claimed he did say that.

n4r9 2y ago

I decided to look up the demographics on Wikipedia. London does indeed have a higher percentage black population than the rest of the country, but Manchester and Birmingham are very similar, whilst other major cities where you're likely to find the most tech companies have around 5%. London: 54% white, 14% black Manchester: 57% white, 12% black Birmingham: 49% white, 11% black Bristol: 81% white, 6% black Leeds: 79% white, 6% black Sheffield: 80% white, 5% black Liverpool: 84% white. 4% black Note: this excludes mixed black and white backgrounds, which make up a decent proportion of people who would describe themselves as black. So if equal numbers of black people went into tech, and companies hired without bias, then you'd expect at least 1 in 20 people in most tech companies to be black. You're right that fewer people from black backgrounds are applying to tech jobs, although I think it's a leap to say it's because they "don't want to". It could just as easily be that they find it intimidating, or don't believe they can do it, or they're socialised into other careers. As a company or hiring manager, if you do come across black applicants, it may well be the case that they have had to battle against a lot to get where they are, which shows grit, enthusiasm, and initiative.

ArthurStacks 2y ago
I'm in the business of making money, not one of getting blacks into software. If they don't want to come for interviews then I'm not going out and finding them. Also using those stats is flawed because the majority of the people working in those cities don't live in them. The real number (of what % blacks constitute the available workforce within commute distance) will be less than 1% in most of them.
- n4r9 2y ago
  > I'm in the business of making money Respectfully, there is always a trade-off between how much money you make and how positive a social impact you have. > The real number (of what % blacks constitute the available workforce within commute distance) will be less than 1% Yes, as I said, it's not the case that black people are as likely to apply for tech jobs. And I agree with you that it's not your responsibility to make that happen. The problem is systemic and goes back to education and environment. However, your tone is a little disconcerting as it seems to suggest that you think everything is fine just the way it is.
  - ArthurStacks 2y ago
    That is you being ignorant of other cultures and countries and assuming things work like they do in yours. The few blacks that are in almost all those cities you mention recieve the same education, are the same environment and socioeconomic group as the whites. It is also a US obsession with US black people and their problems, and thinking everyone should join in on it. This is why when they tried to bring all the George Floyd protest stuff to this region, they were politely told where they could stick it. There are already enough social problems that should get attention and don't, that affect the people living here. Rather than protests about something that has no relevance to anyone living here.
    - n4r9 2y ago
      Sorry if I misled. I'm UK born and bred, grew up an hour from London, and have been living in London for nearly a decade. I've seen the racial divide between private and state schools, and I've seen how the inner city schools split into the good ones in affluent mostly white areas vs the poor ones in struggling ethnic minority areas. There's some in the middle obviously, but there's a definite split. In the former, teachers will advise which Oxbridge college you should apply to. In the latter, teachers will have a strategy for how to respond if someone brings a weapon into class. Black people might technically follow the same syllabus, but the environment is totally different.