4 ms·

Makes me wonder when '_' was first used as a token to denote unused information. Prolog ? ML ?

by agumonkey 2y ago

nicoburns 2y ago
I think this predates computers entirely.
- SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
  I think so, yes. English novels written in the 1800s would reference "Mr A------ from ------shire". As if they were redacting personally identifying information. (1) Underscores and dashes are not that different - especially as this is not just pre-computer but pre-typewriter. And now, underscores are a logical choice when the dash is already in use as a minus sign. 1) https://literature.stackexchange.com/questions/1944/why-are-place-names-obscured-in-charlotte-bront%C3%ABs-the-professor https://literature.stackexchange.com/questions/1944/why-are-... https://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/141704-jane-austens-mansfield-park-location-names-not-completed/ https://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/141704-jane-austens...
  - adrian_b 2y ago
    Underscore has been used in programming for the first time by the language IBM PL/I, in 1964-12, where it replaced the hyphen/minus character that was used by COBOL to make more readable the long identifiers. Replacing hyphen/minus with underscore has been done precisely for removing the ambiguity with the minus operator (In COBOL the ambiguity was less annoying, because the arithmetic operations were usually written with words, e.g. ADD, SUBTRACT, MULTIPLY and so on).
- agumonkey 2y ago
  Good point, this is clearly something that could go back centuries.. if not all the way back to clay tablets.
lieks 2y ago
If we're counting only programming languages (and not fill-out forms), Prolog had it in 1971, before ML. ASCII didn't include _ until its 1963 draft, so it's probably somewhere in that time. I'll guess it's probably Prolog, but maybe Planner (Prolog's predecessor) had it too.
- fanf2 2y ago
  ASCII 1963 was the first version of the standard and it lacked _ https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/366707.367524 https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/366707.367524 The 1965 draft had _ https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/363831.363839 https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/363831.363839 The first standard edition with _ was 1968 https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc20 https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc20 The 1977 version is also available https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/Legacy/FIPS/fipspub1-2-1977.pdf https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/Legacy/FIPS/fipspub1-2-197...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

Makes me wonder when '_' was first used as a token to denote unused information. Prolog ? ML ?

nicoburns 2y ago

I think this predates computers entirely.

SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
I think so, yes. English novels written in the 1800s would reference "Mr A------ from ------shire". As if they were redacting personally identifying information. (1) Underscores and dashes are not that different - especially as this is not just pre-computer but pre-typewriter. And now, underscores are a logical choice when the dash is already in use as a minus sign. 1) https://literature.stackexchange.com/questions/1944/why-are-place-names-obscured-in-charlotte-bront%C3%ABs-the-professor https://literature.stackexchange.com/questions/1944/why-are-... https://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/141704-jane-austens-mansfield-park-location-names-not-completed/ https://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/141704-jane-austens...
- adrian_b 2y ago
  Underscore has been used in programming for the first time by the language IBM PL/I, in 1964-12, where it replaced the hyphen/minus character that was used by COBOL to make more readable the long identifiers. Replacing hyphen/minus with underscore has been done precisely for removing the ambiguity with the minus operator (In COBOL the ambiguity was less annoying, because the arithmetic operations were usually written with words, e.g. ADD, SUBTRACT, MULTIPLY and so on).
agumonkey 2y ago
Good point, this is clearly something that could go back centuries.. if not all the way back to clay tablets.

lieks 2y ago

If we're counting only programming languages (and not fill-out forms), Prolog had it in 1971, before ML. ASCII didn't include _ until its 1963 draft, so it's probably somewhere in that time. I'll guess it's probably Prolog, but maybe Planner (Prolog's predecessor) had it too.

fanf2 2y ago
ASCII 1963 was the first version of the standard and it lacked _ https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/366707.367524 https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/366707.367524 The 1965 draft had _ https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/363831.363839 https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/363831.363839 The first standard edition with _ was 1968 https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc20 https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc20 The 1977 version is also available https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/Legacy/FIPS/fipspub1-2-1977.pdf https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/Legacy/FIPS/fipspub1-2-197...

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]