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It's still a lot of money. For instance Mitsubishi Space Star starts at around 13k with a gas engine. Why are EVs so expensive? We were told technology is compa

It's still a lot of money. For instance Mitsubishi Space Star starts at around 13k with a gas engine. Why are EVs so expensive? We were told technology is comparatively less complex, so it should be cheaper, right? Is it only economy of scale?

numpad0 2y ago
Isn't it just the raw materials cost of battery? I mean, gold bullions are technologically not that complicated to make, right?
- ofrzeta 2y ago
  extrapolating from that page https://www.visualcapitalist.com/visualized-how-much-do-ev-batteries-cost/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/visualized-how-much-do-ev-b... the battery cost should be around $8000. Also this https://bookmygarage.com/electric-vehicles/how-much-does-an-electric-battery-cost-uk/ https://bookmygarage.com/electric-vehicles/how-much-does-an-... Although the price of lithium has "skyrocketed" it is now previous levels. https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/lithium https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/lithium Do we see this reflected in battery or EV car prices?
  - numpad0 2y ago
    What's the kind of delta to be reasonably expected relative to ICE? The cost for the entire ICE drivetrain is estimated to be between somewhere between 1.5k to 10k depending on cars and analysts, so 8k in bare cells before factoring in engineering and manufacturing costs that aren't subsidized by a century long inertia of ICE industry is already significant extra. Really the ones tooting "EV should be cheap to make" horn are Tesla guys. They're not doing engines unless gigacasts is a weird foreshadowing. I doubt it make sense to take it too seriously beyond as a conceptual hand-wavy panel discussion quote when the opposite had been the case for nearly 15 years.
  - bryanlarsen 2y ago
    How do you figure $8000? $8000 is the cost of a 62kWh NMC battery in 2023 in your link. A 45kWh NMC battery in 2025 is probably about half that cost.
    - ofrzeta 2y ago
      You are right. Maybe around $5000 (2025 has just started :)
csomar 2y ago
It is not economy of scale. They need to "re-factor" their factories/models/cars/marketing for little gain. why do it? Tesla was kinda the only player in town and thus commanded high prices and high margins. It's only when the Chinese showed up that the technology is clearly cheaper; and everyone else was caught by it.
ZeroGravitas 2y ago
It's mostly the battery cost. Originally the battery cost roughly the same as the rest of the car, and for a battery that would be considered small by today's standards. And since then the battery costs are coming down due to mass production. This has been predicted in theory for about a decade with 100 dollars per KWh at the cell level being the crossover point where up front costs of EV are lower than ICE. This has already occured in China.
constantcrying 2y ago
EVs are expensive because of their batteries. EV Battery Cells are also right now an almost exclusively Chinese made product.
- thehappypm 2y ago
  It’s about 75% China. Far from almost exclusively.

numpad0 2y ago

Isn't it just the raw materials cost of battery? I mean, gold bullions are technologically not that complicated to make, right?

ofrzeta 2y ago
extrapolating from that page https://www.visualcapitalist.com/visualized-how-much-do-ev-batteries-cost/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/visualized-how-much-do-ev-b... the battery cost should be around $8000. Also this https://bookmygarage.com/electric-vehicles/how-much-does-an-electric-battery-cost-uk/ https://bookmygarage.com/electric-vehicles/how-much-does-an-... Although the price of lithium has "skyrocketed" it is now previous levels. https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/lithium https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/lithium Do we see this reflected in battery or EV car prices?
- numpad0 2y ago
  What's the kind of delta to be reasonably expected relative to ICE? The cost for the entire ICE drivetrain is estimated to be between somewhere between 1.5k to 10k depending on cars and analysts, so 8k in bare cells before factoring in engineering and manufacturing costs that aren't subsidized by a century long inertia of ICE industry is already significant extra. Really the ones tooting "EV should be cheap to make" horn are Tesla guys. They're not doing engines unless gigacasts is a weird foreshadowing. I doubt it make sense to take it too seriously beyond as a conceptual hand-wavy panel discussion quote when the opposite had been the case for nearly 15 years.
- bryanlarsen 2y ago
  How do you figure $8000? $8000 is the cost of a 62kWh NMC battery in 2023 in your link. A 45kWh NMC battery in 2025 is probably about half that cost.
  - ofrzeta 2y ago
    You are right. Maybe around $5000 (2025 has just started :)

csomar 2y ago

It is not economy of scale. They need to "re-factor" their factories/models/cars/marketing for little gain. why do it? Tesla was kinda the only player in town and thus commanded high prices and high margins. It's only when the Chinese showed up that the technology is clearly cheaper; and everyone else was caught by it.

ZeroGravitas 2y ago

It's mostly the battery cost. Originally the battery cost roughly the same as the rest of the car, and for a battery that would be considered small by today's standards. And since then the battery costs are coming down due to mass production. This has been predicted in theory for about a decade with 100 dollars per KWh at the cell level being the crossover point where up front costs of EV are lower than ICE. This has already occured in China.

constantcrying 2y ago

EVs are expensive because of their batteries. EV Battery Cells are also right now an almost exclusively Chinese made product.

thehappypm 2y ago
It’s about 75% China. Far from almost exclusively.