4 ms·

> We can’t take all of our energy and all of our care and finish the painting, then have someone else put their name on it. What a load of shit. What happened

> We can’t take all of our energy and all of our care and finish the painting, then have someone else put their name on it. What a load of shit. What happened to “great artists steal”? Great art must be stolen to inspire new, greater art. The iPhone is awesome. May a thousand devices like it bloom.

adventureful 14y ago
It became an inconvenient statement once Apple conquered the known universe. As is so typical with power and success.
grecy 14y ago
> What a load of shit. What happened to “great artists steal”? Great art must be stolen to inspire new, greater art. You'd be totally cool with me stealing the side project you've poured heart and soul into for 5 years, to sell it to an overseas company that floods the market for 1/10 the price?
- option_greek 14y ago
  Assuming they did it from scratch and not shipping the assemblies outright, I don't see what the issue is.
- jbigelow76 14y ago
  By referencing "great artists steal" I think the OP was referring more to the hypocrisy of Apple as opposed to indignation. Here is the youtube video of Jobs saying that Apple shamelessly steals: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU Given that Jobs credits Picasso with the "great artists steal" quote and Tim Cook making an analogy about "finishing the painting" the whole thing is quite ironic.
Samuel_Michon 14y ago
“What happened to “great artists steal”?” That's because the inverse isn't valid. Not every thief is a great artist. Steve Jobs and Tim Cook apparently didn't consider Android to be great art. The original quote, to put in context what Jobs was referring to: “One of the surest tests [of the superiority or inferiority of a poet] is the way in which a poet borrows. Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different. The good poet welds his theft into a whole of feeling which is unique, utterly different than that from which it is torn; the bad poet throws it into something which has no cohesion. A good poet will usually borrow from authors remote in time, or alien in language, or diverse in interest.” —Philip Massinger http://nancyprager.wordpress.com/2007/05/08/good-poets-borrow-great-poets-steal/ http://nancyprager.wordpress.com/2007/05/08/good-poets-borro... NB: Jobs mistakenly attributed it to Picasso, who never said such a thing. Jobs probably read Richardson’s biography of Picasso, in which the text is misquoted and attributed to T.S. Eliot.
- Sidnicious 14y ago
  I agree, but I think that makes it worse. You shouldn’t have to get permission to take someone’s work and improve it, certainly not based on how good they think you are. Thanks for the source. I don’t think I’ve ever seen it in context :).
- inept 14y ago
  "NB: Jobs mistakenly attributed it to Picasso, who never said such a thing. Jobs probably read Richardson’s biography of Picasso, in which the text is misquoted and attributed to T.S. Eliot." The quote you have above is in fact T. S. Eliot's words, in reference to Massinger, from his selection "The Sacred Wood: Essays on Poetry and Criticism", 1921. If you re-read the citation, you will see her intention that _neither_ T. S. Eliot nor Picasso specifically said "Good artists borrow, great artists steal" but a "bastardization" of Eliot's original writing. Eliot's intention, "A good poet will usually borrow from authors remote in time, or alien in language, or diverse in interest." would discredit every technology company or figure that has been defended by the cliche. http://www.bartleby.com/200/sw11.html http://www.bartleby.com/200/sw11.html
  - Samuel_Michon 14y ago
    Excellent find, thanks for sharing. It's nice to read the paragraph in its context. From the blog post, I understood that T.S. Eliot quoted Massinger, and that it wasn't his own opinion. Now I see they were Eliot's own words. "Eliot's intention, "A good poet will usually borrow from authors remote in time, or alien in language, or diverse in interest." would discredit every technology company or figure that has been defended by the cliche." I don't believe so. For example: Jony Ive's designs for Apple have been said to be copies of Dieter Rams' vintage designs for Braun. Ive himself has openly acknowledged that he is inspired by Rams, and that he tries to follow Rams' 10 design principles [1]. I believe that, by Eliot's standards, makes him a 'good poet', given that Ive took from a designer remote in time (50 years a go), from a different product category (computers instead of home appliances), and using different materials (aluminum and glass instead of wood and steel). [1] https://www.vitsoe.com/gb/about/good-design https://www.vitsoe.com/gb/about/good-design
joeycfan 14y ago
>The iPhone is awesome. May a thousand devices like it bloom. But they won't be allowed to. That's the point.

adventureful 14y ago

It became an inconvenient statement once Apple conquered the known universe. As is so typical with power and success.

grecy 14y ago

> What a load of shit. What happened to “great artists steal”? Great art must be stolen to inspire new, greater art. You'd be totally cool with me stealing the side project you've poured heart and soul into for 5 years, to sell it to an overseas company that floods the market for 1/10 the price?

option_greek 14y ago
Assuming they did it from scratch and not shipping the assemblies outright, I don't see what the issue is.
jbigelow76 14y ago
By referencing "great artists steal" I think the OP was referring more to the hypocrisy of Apple as opposed to indignation. Here is the youtube video of Jobs saying that Apple shamelessly steals: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU Given that Jobs credits Picasso with the "great artists steal" quote and Tim Cook making an analogy about "finishing the painting" the whole thing is quite ironic.

Samuel_Michon 14y ago

“What happened to “great artists steal”?” That's because the inverse isn't valid. Not every thief is a great artist. Steve Jobs and Tim Cook apparently didn't consider Android to be great art. The original quote, to put in context what Jobs was referring to: “One of the surest tests [of the superiority or inferiority of a poet] is the way in which a poet borrows. Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different. The good poet welds his theft into a whole of feeling which is unique, utterly different than that from which it is torn; the bad poet throws it into something which has no cohesion. A good poet will usually borrow from authors remote in time, or alien in language, or diverse in interest.” —Philip Massinger http://nancyprager.wordpress.com/2007/05/08/good-poets-borrow-great-poets-steal/ http://nancyprager.wordpress.com/2007/05/08/good-poets-borro... NB: Jobs mistakenly attributed it to Picasso, who never said such a thing. Jobs probably read Richardson’s biography of Picasso, in which the text is misquoted and attributed to T.S. Eliot.

Sidnicious 14y ago
I agree, but I think that makes it worse. You shouldn’t have to get permission to take someone’s work and improve it, certainly not based on how good they think you are. Thanks for the source. I don’t think I’ve ever seen it in context :).
inept 14y ago
"NB: Jobs mistakenly attributed it to Picasso, who never said such a thing. Jobs probably read Richardson’s biography of Picasso, in which the text is misquoted and attributed to T.S. Eliot." The quote you have above is in fact T. S. Eliot's words, in reference to Massinger, from his selection "The Sacred Wood: Essays on Poetry and Criticism", 1921. If you re-read the citation, you will see her intention that _neither_ T. S. Eliot nor Picasso specifically said "Good artists borrow, great artists steal" but a "bastardization" of Eliot's original writing. Eliot's intention, "A good poet will usually borrow from authors remote in time, or alien in language, or diverse in interest." would discredit every technology company or figure that has been defended by the cliche. http://www.bartleby.com/200/sw11.html http://www.bartleby.com/200/sw11.html
- Samuel_Michon 14y ago
  Excellent find, thanks for sharing. It's nice to read the paragraph in its context. From the blog post, I understood that T.S. Eliot quoted Massinger, and that it wasn't his own opinion. Now I see they were Eliot's own words. "Eliot's intention, "A good poet will usually borrow from authors remote in time, or alien in language, or diverse in interest." would discredit every technology company or figure that has been defended by the cliche." I don't believe so. For example: Jony Ive's designs for Apple have been said to be copies of Dieter Rams' vintage designs for Braun. Ive himself has openly acknowledged that he is inspired by Rams, and that he tries to follow Rams' 10 design principles [1]. I believe that, by Eliot's standards, makes him a 'good poet', given that Ive took from a designer remote in time (50 years a go), from a different product category (computers instead of home appliances), and using different materials (aluminum and glass instead of wood and steel). [1] https://www.vitsoe.com/gb/about/good-design https://www.vitsoe.com/gb/about/good-design

joeycfan 14y ago

>The iPhone is awesome. May a thousand devices like it bloom. But they won't be allowed to. That's the point.