8 ms·

FreeBSD Suspend/Resume

139 points by vermaden 2y ago

palata 2y ago
> I leave You with a dilemma on how a Windows or macOS or Linux system running on the laptop/desktop behaves differently then FreeBSD here... Not sure what the point is? Is it better, or is it as good as those other systems?
- vermaden 2y ago
  In terms of suspend/resume case I believe the experience is generally the same - it just works on FreeBSD.
  - timcambrant 2y ago
    I have had very mixed experiences when suspending a laptop using Windows, various Linux distributions, MacOS and Windows 7-11. MacOS is the most polished yet, but Linux (kernel 2.4 to 6.8) has never nailed this. Often times the kernel refuses to sleep and the laptop will hotbox in the bag until the battery runs out. The same has happened on the other OSes, but less often. It looks like this particular FreeBSD installation (we don't know if it's out of the box or customized, and haven't seen it side by side with another hardware setup) works very well. Wonder if the results are the same if they closed the lid rather than remembering to press the button. Also, I wonder why this doesn't trigger any authentication when starting back up. Anyone could snatch that laptop and still be logged in.
    - johnea 2y ago
      Having been on linux laptops for ~20 years, I've found this to be really h/w dependent. I've mostly run thinkpads, and they've mostly worked. My current T16 not only suspendds/resumes well, I also successfully use full disk encryption recovery on boot from hibernate.
      - bityard 2y ago
        Concur. I have seen issues with suspend on Linux in the past, but my last three Dell laptops suspend just fine. Usually the only weirdness is with laptops that don't have an S3 state anymore, or when you add/remove hardware in between being awake and asleep. That said (and it pains me to say it), the experience is still nowhere near as flawless as MacOS on Silicon hardware.
      - jandrese 2y ago
        This is my experience too. Even though we don't hand off control to the (often buggy) BIOS anymore, there is still a fair bit of hardware support that needs to be in place to have a smooth suspend/resume. Even on the Windows install that shipped with the laptop I've had machines that fail to suspend properly and turn into bagwarmers or that fail to restore the graphics when waking back up or any number of potential issues. I've even had machines that brick their SSDs the first time you put them to sleep. Permanently bricked, can't even be wiped or factory reset bricked.
      - vermaden 2y ago
        For the record - this FreeBSD installation from videos also uses Full Disk Encryption in the form of GELI under the ZFS - its really brain dead simple to setup - just use 'Auto (ZFS)' option in the FreeBSD bsdinstall(8) installer and set Encrypt Disks to YES - nothing else required.
        palata 2y ago
        I thought root-on-ZFS did not work well with hibernate, for some reason? Did I misunderstand something?
        vermaden 2y ago
        FreeBSD - from what I know - does not support Hibernation (S4) - it supports Suspend/Resume (S3) - as shown in video. The difference: Suspend/Resume (S3) CPU is powered off. RAM maintains power and data. Very low power usage. Sometimes referred to as 'Save to RAM' or 'Standby'. Hibernation (S4) CPU is powered off. RAM is powered off. Data/RAM/files wrote to disk. Power is off. Sometimes referred to as 'Save to Disk'.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
      To echo the other comments - I'm reasonably confident that the Linux kernel is perfectly capable of handling sleep, the problem is varied hardware support. Consider that every Chromebook and Android device on the planet is running a Linux kernel, and they have no trouble. Likewise, I don't think I've ever had Linux struggle with sleeping on a thinkpad, and the best suspend/resume experience I've ever had was Linux on a random Lenovo laptop a while back.
    - vermaden 2y ago
      Hi, > It looks like this particular FreeBSD installation (we don't know if it's out of the box or customized, and haven't seen it side by side with another hardware setup) works very well. All the settings I use are documented here - and its nothing special really - most people using FreeBSD on laptops use them: - https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2022/04/14/freebsd-13-1-on-thinkpad-w520/ https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2022/04/14/freebsd-13-1-on-th... - https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2018/11/28/the-power-to-serve-freebsd-power-management/ https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2018/11/28/the-power-to-serve... > Wonder if the results are the same if they closed the lid rather than remembering to press the button. I often just close the lid and DO NOT want the laptop to go to sleep - that is why I do not use it - but it works the same with hw.acpi.lid_switch_state=S3 in /etc/sysctl.conf file - it does not matter for FreeBSD if zzz(8) commands triggers S3 state or something else. > Also, I wonder why this doesn't trigger any authentication when starting back up. Anyone could snatch that laptop and still be logged in. The purpose of this videos were to show only the suspend/resume process of FreeBSD system. In my daily life I have two shortcuts related to this: - [SUPER] + [L] - locks the system and leaves it running - and it requires to enter password - [SUPER] + [CTRL] + [ALT] + [L] - locks the system AND PUTS IT INTO S3 SLEEP - and it requires to enter password if you wake it up Hope that helps. Regards, vermaden
      - timcambrant 2y ago
        Excellent clarifications. Thank you!
    - prmoustache 2y ago
      > Wonder if the results are the same if they closed the lid This is a default setting that I never understood. Nearly all laptops/keyboard have a sleep button, power button is often configured by default to also go to sleep. Additionnally you can configure to go automatically to sleep if inactive and on battery for a few minutes. Why would I want my laptop to go to sleep immediately when I close the lid? Half of the time when I am closing the lid, it is to move from one space/room to another. I don't want my git pull/push, my music or my video call to stop for 20-30 seconds because I am just going from my sofa to my kitchen or from my desk to a meeting room. And I don't want to be that dummy project manager who moves awkwardly from one place to another with his coffee cup in one hand and an opened laptop on the other hand nearly hitting everyone or the office plants in the process just because he is too dumb to configure his laptop correctly.
- freekh 2y ago
  Login?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - vermaden 2y ago
    The purpose of this videos were to show only the suspend/resume process of FreeBSD system. In my daily life I have two shortcuts related to this: - [SUPER] + [L] - locks the system and leaves it running - and it requires to enter password - [SUPER] + [CTRL] + [ALT] + [L] - locks the system AND PUTS IT INTO S3 SLEEP - and it requires to enter password if you wake it up Hope that helps. Regards, vermaden
yxucjcjc 2y ago
What are those games being run?
- vermaden 2y ago
  In the background its Balatro game running on WINE64. Rally game is Colin McRae Rally 2.0 on WINE32. Top left is Sensible World of Soccer 96/97 game running on DOSBox.
ohazi 2y ago
RIP S3 sleep... Took years to get it to work reliably under Linux, then we had a good decade+ run of it "just working" like this, now back to trying to weed out all the wacky platform quirks and weird hardware/firmware behavior that make the S0ix states be just barely unusable. Maybe in another five years...
- starspangled 2y ago
  Can you explain a bit more? What happened? Linux used to be able to do S3 sleep well, and now it can't because... new platforms removed S3 for S0ix? Or S3 became even more complicated with mroe platform quirks and weird hardware?
  - jodoherty 2y ago
    The problem is platforms moved away from S3 sleep. I've heard people claim it was mostly so managed Windows laptops could force updates with the lid shut and the laptop suspended. Now I have to worry about my laptop randomly overheating itself in my backpack and even catching fire.
    - 4ad 2y ago
      My Macbook Pro lasts about two days on battery while doing work (in clamshell mode, with the screen off). My Thinkpad drains its battery in less time than that in sleep. The removal of S3 is a travesty.
    - pxeboot 2y ago
      I believe it came about during the "Windows must run on tablets" era. They needed a way for WiFi to stay on during sleep so things like notifications would continue to work. It also enabled media players to continue playing audio in sleep mode, similar to iOS and Android.
      - dbtc 2y ago
        Would be great to have a bios switch for it then.
com2kid 2y ago
Windows used to work about this well back in the XP days, possibly Windows 7 as well. Plenty of times I hit the "sleep" button that Logitech put right next to the esc key (....) and resumed the system to find everything working as expected. Not sure if the embedded video is suspend to RAM or disk. Also not sure why there wasn't a PW prompt upon resume, but I'm not a BSD person, just someone who is paranoid about PW prompts.
- 0x457 2y ago
  Because there is usually a graceful period before forcing to authenticate. Also, if it's Xorg lockscreen, then it's probably not very secure to begin with.
- vermaden 2y ago
  > Not sure if the embedded video is suspend to RAM or disk. Its Suspend to Disk (S3). > Also not sure why there wasn't a PW prompt upon resume, but I'm not a BSD person, just someone who is paranoid about PW prompts. The purpose of this videos were to show only the suspend/resume process of FreeBSD system. In my daily life I have two shortcuts related to this: - [SUPER] + [L] - locks the system and leaves it running - and it requires to enter password - [SUPER] + [CTRL] + [ALT] + [L] - locks the system AND PUTS IT INTO S3 SLEEP - and it requires to enter password if you wake it up Hope that helps. Regards, vermaden
  - cperciva 2y ago
    Its Suspend to Disk (S3) S3 is suspend to RAM. Suspend to disk is S4.
    - vermaden 2y ago
      You are right - its Suspend to RAM - I wanted to reply fast ... which did not ended well.
maybeben 2y ago
feel lucky. s3 suspend quit working on my thinkpad in -CURRENT some months ago after having worked for like a decade. i didn't notice until i pulled a molten hot slab of locked up laptop out of my bag
- bboygravity 2y ago
  The only laptop I ever had in my entire life where sleep works is my current XPS 17 running win10. I want to update my hardware to a Lenovo. Not looking forward to new "sleep won't work no matter what you try" adventures. That sht is like printers: should always work, never does.
  - trelane 2y ago
    Weird. I haven't had a problem with my System76 laptops.
    - vladvasiliu 2y ago
      I think it's highly dependent on the particular hardware. I have two HP EliteBook G8s, one AMD one Intel. Both work perfectly with Linux, although they don't support S3, only the "modern" standby. The AMD one randomly craps out if suspended in Windows. No idea what it does, but it gets extremely hot and doesn't respond to anything but a hard reset. Sometimes it reboots on its own. Maybe because it gets too hot? No idea. The Intel one also sometimes gets fairly warm for no reason (I keep it up to date, so it can't be random updates - also happens in my bag, so while unplugged). But sleep now mostly works fine. For the first year or so it would sometimes wake up with a garbled screen. Those are both your regular basic enterprise laptops, no dedicated GPUs or anything fancy.
      - trelane 2y ago
        The thing is that modern hardware is super complicated and you have to have a good vendor that specifically targets the OS you want.
v1ne 2y ago
FreeBSD and Suspend/Resume… About 10 years ago, I switched from FreeBSD to Linux because I couldn't get suspend/resume to work reliably (i.e. suspend/resume cycle succeeds and it doesn't drain my laptop battery in between) on FreeBSD on my Thinkpad. And this was only Suspend to RAM. Suspend to Disk is really nice to have, especially if coupled with hybrid standby, as on macOS and Windows by default. I really appreciate that people still maintain FreeBSD on the desktop, though.
- margana 2y ago
  Odd that you would say "only Suspend to RAM", because that is far more difficult to reliably implement in terms of hardware compatibility than Suspend to Disk.
  - nine_k 2y ago
    AFAICT "Suspend to RAM" is basically stopping the CPU, powering down the peripherals, and keeping the DRAM unchanged and refreshed. It should be the easier option since very little state needs to be saved explicitly, the OS and apps should just receive a signal that they were interrupted, so some peripherals have to be re-initialized, and things like network and USB connections need to be re-established. What am I missing?
    - gertop 2y ago
      The main difference is that in S3 many (internal) peripherals are put to sleep but not entirely unpowered. So when the system is resumed, it's not an entirely clean slate like it would be from a fresh power up from hibernation. Unfortunately sometimes pulling down the reset line doesn't always do as thorough job as a power cycle.
    - Joker_vD 2y ago
      > powering down the peripherals > some peripherals have to be re-initialized AIUI, these things actually way more hard than it sounds because hardware developers live in their own world, apparently. There's been articles here on HN from mjg59's blog (who's one of the guys maintaining all this power management stuff in the Linux kernel) like this one [0] about how some hardware simply chooses to do things that make this "re-initialization" impossible to do reliably. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38095276 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38095276
muppetman 2y ago
What's the point here? Suspend on my Lenovo T480s works great on Linuxmint (which is just an Ubuntu compiled kernel). It doesn't have that jarring boot into console mode with output, it just wakes up into X again. My Mac Laptop is still far and away the best experience (Because Apple controls every bit of hardware). You open it up and within a minisecond it's ready to work. My linux laptop takes at least 5 seconds before you can login - same as shown in this video.
- vermaden 2y ago
  I believe FreeBSD is usually treated as a 'server' operating system 'useless' on the desktop/laptop pattern usage. The point is to show that FreeBSD is a general purpose operating system and also works great on the desktop/laptop scenario.
  - muppetman 2y ago
    Ahh right. Makes sense. Thank you. I know lots of people that use FreeBSD as their desktop so I hadn't clocked this aspect.
tandr 2y ago
Now if we can make FreeBSD to dual boot with Windows or Linux with UEFI SecureBoot enabled (corp IT requirement), that would be a blast... Maybe one day I will be able to try it by booting from a USB drive...
- prmoustache 2y ago
  I made a minimal debian wrapper installation on an nvme drive in an usb enclosure that add support for secure boot, encryption, bluetooth, wifi and start whatever OS I want to run on qemu. The thing check total memory and cores of the machine and start the VM with VM CPUS = TOTAL CPU CORES - 2 and VM MEMORY = TOTAL MEMORY - 1GB. The sway compositor is configured to automatically start virt-viewer in full screen at boot connecting to the chosen VM as well as bluetooth/pavucontrol/nm-tui in a hidden virtual desktop. I initially built it to have a portable yet as close to bare metal experience as possible with operating systems such as Haiku that do not necessarily have all features + best hardware support but this could be totally done for a BSD. Although you rely on it to connect a new bluetooth device, wifi network, the idea is to spend the less time possible on the underlying debian host OS. I did it manually but I should really do an ansible playbook that people can adapt to their distro of choice.
ranger_danger 2y ago
The only reason I still buy and rely on first-party hardware is how well (and fast) the suspend/resume works. Never a single problem. Completely opposite experience with Linux/*BSD though, across dozens of different hardware setups, almost all of them have had some kind of quirk/bug that made it unusable.
- surajrmal 2y ago
  Consider a Chromebook. They are well supported,and therefore work well despite being Linux based.
- prmoustache 2y ago
  Have you ever considered using Linux laptops sold by companies focusing on Linux computers like system76, tuxedo, slimbook, starlabs and others?
  - ranger_danger 2y ago
    Yes, but they are all way out of my price range. I have also read reviews and many posts online that show that even these Linux-focused companies cannot support 100% of their own hardware lineup with working drivers.
CoolCold 2y ago
> Why not FreeBSD 14.2 as its already available? Because pkg(8) packages are built against ‘oldest’ FreeBSD version in the current tree – which means FreeBSD 14.1 – and that often breaks kernel related packages such as really important drm-kmod or virtualbox-ose-kmod packages. FreeBSD still lacks basic LTS functionality and keeping distribution coherent. May be one day some vendor will create LTS distribution based on FreeBSD with at least 5 years support cycle?
- vermaden 2y ago
  Basically each FreeBSD MAJOR version - like 13.x or 14.x had 5 years lifetime/support (like LTS) - it was shortened to 4 years only recently. Details: - https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-announce/2024-July/000143.html https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-announce/2024-Jul...
  - CoolCold 2y ago
    unluckily, FreeBSD project uses misleading info here - your apps are OUT of equation here, they do split "base" system (if traffic router is your appliance of choice, you may be fine with that), but all useful stuff is in "ports"/"packages" and is rolling updates.
- hnarn 2y ago
  Just read the next sentence: > I will upgrade from 14.1 to 14.2 shortly after 14.1 runs out of support – which would guarantee having working pkg(8) packages on FreeBSD 14.2. The way I'm reading this, you can just move between minors when they expire rather than when the new minor is available: - stable/14 was released Nov 2023 - 14.0 support ended Sep 2024, move to 14.1 - 14.1 support ends Mar 2025, move to 14.2 Rinse and repeat. stable/13 was released Apr 2021 and the last minor (13.4) is still supported until Jun 2025, it's four years just like the previous major releases. I don't see how any of this shows an operating system that "lacks basic LTS functionality" or "keeping the distribution coherent" -- especially the latter point is strange considering FreeBSD by design is a lot more "coherent" than Linux (whether that's a good thing or not is completely a matter of taste).

139 points by vermaden 2y ago

> I leave You with a dilemma on how a Windows or macOS or Linux system running on the laptop/desktop behaves differently then FreeBSD here... Not sure what the point is? Is it better, or is it as good as those other systems?

vermaden 2y ago
In terms of suspend/resume case I believe the experience is generally the same - it just works on FreeBSD.
- timcambrant 2y ago
  I have had very mixed experiences when suspending a laptop using Windows, various Linux distributions, MacOS and Windows 7-11. MacOS is the most polished yet, but Linux (kernel 2.4 to 6.8) has never nailed this. Often times the kernel refuses to sleep and the laptop will hotbox in the bag until the battery runs out. The same has happened on the other OSes, but less often. It looks like this particular FreeBSD installation (we don't know if it's out of the box or customized, and haven't seen it side by side with another hardware setup) works very well. Wonder if the results are the same if they closed the lid rather than remembering to press the button. Also, I wonder why this doesn't trigger any authentication when starting back up. Anyone could snatch that laptop and still be logged in.
  - johnea 2y ago
    Having been on linux laptops for ~20 years, I've found this to be really h/w dependent. I've mostly run thinkpads, and they've mostly worked. My current T16 not only suspendds/resumes well, I also successfully use full disk encryption recovery on boot from hibernate.
    - bityard 2y ago
      Concur. I have seen issues with suspend on Linux in the past, but my last three Dell laptops suspend just fine. Usually the only weirdness is with laptops that don't have an S3 state anymore, or when you add/remove hardware in between being awake and asleep. That said (and it pains me to say it), the experience is still nowhere near as flawless as MacOS on Silicon hardware.
    - jandrese 2y ago
      This is my experience too. Even though we don't hand off control to the (often buggy) BIOS anymore, there is still a fair bit of hardware support that needs to be in place to have a smooth suspend/resume. Even on the Windows install that shipped with the laptop I've had machines that fail to suspend properly and turn into bagwarmers or that fail to restore the graphics when waking back up or any number of potential issues. I've even had machines that brick their SSDs the first time you put them to sleep. Permanently bricked, can't even be wiped or factory reset bricked.
    - vermaden 2y ago
      For the record - this FreeBSD installation from videos also uses Full Disk Encryption in the form of GELI under the ZFS - its really brain dead simple to setup - just use 'Auto (ZFS)' option in the FreeBSD bsdinstall(8) installer and set Encrypt Disks to YES - nothing else required.
      - palata 2y ago
        I thought root-on-ZFS did not work well with hibernate, for some reason? Did I misunderstand something?
        vermaden 2y ago
        FreeBSD - from what I know - does not support Hibernation (S4) - it supports Suspend/Resume (S3) - as shown in video. The difference: Suspend/Resume (S3) CPU is powered off. RAM maintains power and data. Very low power usage. Sometimes referred to as 'Save to RAM' or 'Standby'. Hibernation (S4) CPU is powered off. RAM is powered off. Data/RAM/files wrote to disk. Power is off. Sometimes referred to as 'Save to Disk'.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
    To echo the other comments - I'm reasonably confident that the Linux kernel is perfectly capable of handling sleep, the problem is varied hardware support. Consider that every Chromebook and Android device on the planet is running a Linux kernel, and they have no trouble. Likewise, I don't think I've ever had Linux struggle with sleeping on a thinkpad, and the best suspend/resume experience I've ever had was Linux on a random Lenovo laptop a while back.
  - vermaden 2y ago
    Hi, > It looks like this particular FreeBSD installation (we don't know if it's out of the box or customized, and haven't seen it side by side with another hardware setup) works very well. All the settings I use are documented here - and its nothing special really - most people using FreeBSD on laptops use them: - https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2022/04/14/freebsd-13-1-on-thinkpad-w520/ https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2022/04/14/freebsd-13-1-on-th... - https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2018/11/28/the-power-to-serve-freebsd-power-management/ https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2018/11/28/the-power-to-serve... > Wonder if the results are the same if they closed the lid rather than remembering to press the button. I often just close the lid and DO NOT want the laptop to go to sleep - that is why I do not use it - but it works the same with hw.acpi.lid_switch_state=S3 in /etc/sysctl.conf file - it does not matter for FreeBSD if zzz(8) commands triggers S3 state or something else. > Also, I wonder why this doesn't trigger any authentication when starting back up. Anyone could snatch that laptop and still be logged in. The purpose of this videos were to show only the suspend/resume process of FreeBSD system. In my daily life I have two shortcuts related to this: - [SUPER] + [L] - locks the system and leaves it running - and it requires to enter password - [SUPER] + [CTRL] + [ALT] + [L] - locks the system AND PUTS IT INTO S3 SLEEP - and it requires to enter password if you wake it up Hope that helps. Regards, vermaden
    - timcambrant 2y ago
      Excellent clarifications. Thank you!
  - prmoustache 2y ago
    > Wonder if the results are the same if they closed the lid This is a default setting that I never understood. Nearly all laptops/keyboard have a sleep button, power button is often configured by default to also go to sleep. Additionnally you can configure to go automatically to sleep if inactive and on battery for a few minutes. Why would I want my laptop to go to sleep immediately when I close the lid? Half of the time when I am closing the lid, it is to move from one space/room to another. I don't want my git pull/push, my music or my video call to stop for 20-30 seconds because I am just going from my sofa to my kitchen or from my desk to a meeting room. And I don't want to be that dummy project manager who moves awkwardly from one place to another with his coffee cup in one hand and an opened laptop on the other hand nearly hitting everyone or the office plants in the process just because he is too dumb to configure his laptop correctly.
freekh 2y ago
Login?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- vermaden 2y ago
  The purpose of this videos were to show only the suspend/resume process of FreeBSD system. In my daily life I have two shortcuts related to this: - [SUPER] + [L] - locks the system and leaves it running - and it requires to enter password - [SUPER] + [CTRL] + [ALT] + [L] - locks the system AND PUTS IT INTO S3 SLEEP - and it requires to enter password if you wake it up Hope that helps. Regards, vermaden

yxucjcjc 2y ago

What are those games being run?

vermaden 2y ago
In the background its Balatro game running on WINE64. Rally game is Colin McRae Rally 2.0 on WINE32. Top left is Sensible World of Soccer 96/97 game running on DOSBox.

ohazi 2y ago

RIP S3 sleep... Took years to get it to work reliably under Linux, then we had a good decade+ run of it "just working" like this, now back to trying to weed out all the wacky platform quirks and weird hardware/firmware behavior that make the S0ix states be just barely unusable. Maybe in another five years...

starspangled 2y ago
Can you explain a bit more? What happened? Linux used to be able to do S3 sleep well, and now it can't because... new platforms removed S3 for S0ix? Or S3 became even more complicated with mroe platform quirks and weird hardware?
- jodoherty 2y ago
  The problem is platforms moved away from S3 sleep. I've heard people claim it was mostly so managed Windows laptops could force updates with the lid shut and the laptop suspended. Now I have to worry about my laptop randomly overheating itself in my backpack and even catching fire.
  - 4ad 2y ago
    My Macbook Pro lasts about two days on battery while doing work (in clamshell mode, with the screen off). My Thinkpad drains its battery in less time than that in sleep. The removal of S3 is a travesty.
  - pxeboot 2y ago
    I believe it came about during the "Windows must run on tablets" era. They needed a way for WiFi to stay on during sleep so things like notifications would continue to work. It also enabled media players to continue playing audio in sleep mode, similar to iOS and Android.
    - dbtc 2y ago
      Would be great to have a bios switch for it then.

com2kid 2y ago

Windows used to work about this well back in the XP days, possibly Windows 7 as well. Plenty of times I hit the "sleep" button that Logitech put right next to the esc key (....) and resumed the system to find everything working as expected. Not sure if the embedded video is suspend to RAM or disk. Also not sure why there wasn't a PW prompt upon resume, but I'm not a BSD person, just someone who is paranoid about PW prompts.

0x457 2y ago
Because there is usually a graceful period before forcing to authenticate. Also, if it's Xorg lockscreen, then it's probably not very secure to begin with.
vermaden 2y ago
> Not sure if the embedded video is suspend to RAM or disk. Its Suspend to Disk (S3). > Also not sure why there wasn't a PW prompt upon resume, but I'm not a BSD person, just someone who is paranoid about PW prompts. The purpose of this videos were to show only the suspend/resume process of FreeBSD system. In my daily life I have two shortcuts related to this: - [SUPER] + [L] - locks the system and leaves it running - and it requires to enter password - [SUPER] + [CTRL] + [ALT] + [L] - locks the system AND PUTS IT INTO S3 SLEEP - and it requires to enter password if you wake it up Hope that helps. Regards, vermaden
- cperciva 2y ago
  Its Suspend to Disk (S3) S3 is suspend to RAM. Suspend to disk is S4.
  - vermaden 2y ago
    You are right - its Suspend to RAM - I wanted to reply fast ... which did not ended well.

maybeben 2y ago

feel lucky. s3 suspend quit working on my thinkpad in -CURRENT some months ago after having worked for like a decade. i didn't notice until i pulled a molten hot slab of locked up laptop out of my bag

bboygravity 2y ago
The only laptop I ever had in my entire life where sleep works is my current XPS 17 running win10. I want to update my hardware to a Lenovo. Not looking forward to new "sleep won't work no matter what you try" adventures. That sht is like printers: should always work, never does.
- trelane 2y ago
  Weird. I haven't had a problem with my System76 laptops.
  - vladvasiliu 2y ago
    I think it's highly dependent on the particular hardware. I have two HP EliteBook G8s, one AMD one Intel. Both work perfectly with Linux, although they don't support S3, only the "modern" standby. The AMD one randomly craps out if suspended in Windows. No idea what it does, but it gets extremely hot and doesn't respond to anything but a hard reset. Sometimes it reboots on its own. Maybe because it gets too hot? No idea. The Intel one also sometimes gets fairly warm for no reason (I keep it up to date, so it can't be random updates - also happens in my bag, so while unplugged). But sleep now mostly works fine. For the first year or so it would sometimes wake up with a garbled screen. Those are both your regular basic enterprise laptops, no dedicated GPUs or anything fancy.
    - trelane 2y ago
      The thing is that modern hardware is super complicated and you have to have a good vendor that specifically targets the OS you want.

v1ne 2y ago

FreeBSD and Suspend/Resume… About 10 years ago, I switched from FreeBSD to Linux because I couldn't get suspend/resume to work reliably (i.e. suspend/resume cycle succeeds and it doesn't drain my laptop battery in between) on FreeBSD on my Thinkpad. And this was only Suspend to RAM. Suspend to Disk is really nice to have, especially if coupled with hybrid standby, as on macOS and Windows by default. I really appreciate that people still maintain FreeBSD on the desktop, though.

margana 2y ago
Odd that you would say "only Suspend to RAM", because that is far more difficult to reliably implement in terms of hardware compatibility than Suspend to Disk.
- nine_k 2y ago
  AFAICT "Suspend to RAM" is basically stopping the CPU, powering down the peripherals, and keeping the DRAM unchanged and refreshed. It should be the easier option since very little state needs to be saved explicitly, the OS and apps should just receive a signal that they were interrupted, so some peripherals have to be re-initialized, and things like network and USB connections need to be re-established. What am I missing?
  - gertop 2y ago
    The main difference is that in S3 many (internal) peripherals are put to sleep but not entirely unpowered. So when the system is resumed, it's not an entirely clean slate like it would be from a fresh power up from hibernation. Unfortunately sometimes pulling down the reset line doesn't always do as thorough job as a power cycle.
  - Joker_vD 2y ago
    > powering down the peripherals > some peripherals have to be re-initialized AIUI, these things actually way more hard than it sounds because hardware developers live in their own world, apparently. There's been articles here on HN from mjg59's blog (who's one of the guys maintaining all this power management stuff in the Linux kernel) like this one [0] about how some hardware simply chooses to do things that make this "re-initialization" impossible to do reliably. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38095276 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38095276

muppetman 2y ago

What's the point here? Suspend on my Lenovo T480s works great on Linuxmint (which is just an Ubuntu compiled kernel). It doesn't have that jarring boot into console mode with output, it just wakes up into X again. My Mac Laptop is still far and away the best experience (Because Apple controls every bit of hardware). You open it up and within a minisecond it's ready to work. My linux laptop takes at least 5 seconds before you can login - same as shown in this video.

vermaden 2y ago
I believe FreeBSD is usually treated as a 'server' operating system 'useless' on the desktop/laptop pattern usage. The point is to show that FreeBSD is a general purpose operating system and also works great on the desktop/laptop scenario.
- muppetman 2y ago
  Ahh right. Makes sense. Thank you. I know lots of people that use FreeBSD as their desktop so I hadn't clocked this aspect.

tandr 2y ago

Now if we can make FreeBSD to dual boot with Windows or Linux with UEFI SecureBoot enabled (corp IT requirement), that would be a blast... Maybe one day I will be able to try it by booting from a USB drive...

prmoustache 2y ago
I made a minimal debian wrapper installation on an nvme drive in an usb enclosure that add support for secure boot, encryption, bluetooth, wifi and start whatever OS I want to run on qemu. The thing check total memory and cores of the machine and start the VM with VM CPUS = TOTAL CPU CORES - 2 and VM MEMORY = TOTAL MEMORY - 1GB. The sway compositor is configured to automatically start virt-viewer in full screen at boot connecting to the chosen VM as well as bluetooth/pavucontrol/nm-tui in a hidden virtual desktop. I initially built it to have a portable yet as close to bare metal experience as possible with operating systems such as Haiku that do not necessarily have all features + best hardware support but this could be totally done for a BSD. Although you rely on it to connect a new bluetooth device, wifi network, the idea is to spend the less time possible on the underlying debian host OS. I did it manually but I should really do an ansible playbook that people can adapt to their distro of choice.

ranger_danger 2y ago

The only reason I still buy and rely on first-party hardware is how well (and fast) the suspend/resume works. Never a single problem. Completely opposite experience with Linux/*BSD though, across dozens of different hardware setups, almost all of them have had some kind of quirk/bug that made it unusable.

surajrmal 2y ago
Consider a Chromebook. They are well supported,and therefore work well despite being Linux based.
prmoustache 2y ago
Have you ever considered using Linux laptops sold by companies focusing on Linux computers like system76, tuxedo, slimbook, starlabs and others?
- ranger_danger 2y ago
  Yes, but they are all way out of my price range. I have also read reviews and many posts online that show that even these Linux-focused companies cannot support 100% of their own hardware lineup with working drivers.

CoolCold 2y ago

> Why not FreeBSD 14.2 as its already available? Because pkg(8) packages are built against ‘oldest’ FreeBSD version in the current tree – which means FreeBSD 14.1 – and that often breaks kernel related packages such as really important drm-kmod or virtualbox-ose-kmod packages. FreeBSD still lacks basic LTS functionality and keeping distribution coherent. May be one day some vendor will create LTS distribution based on FreeBSD with at least 5 years support cycle?

vermaden 2y ago
Basically each FreeBSD MAJOR version - like 13.x or 14.x had 5 years lifetime/support (like LTS) - it was shortened to 4 years only recently. Details: - https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-announce/2024-July/000143.html https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-announce/2024-Jul...
- CoolCold 2y ago
  unluckily, FreeBSD project uses misleading info here - your apps are OUT of equation here, they do split "base" system (if traffic router is your appliance of choice, you may be fine with that), but all useful stuff is in "ports"/"packages" and is rolling updates.
hnarn 2y ago
Just read the next sentence: > I will upgrade from 14.1 to 14.2 shortly after 14.1 runs out of support – which would guarantee having working pkg(8) packages on FreeBSD 14.2. The way I'm reading this, you can just move between minors when they expire rather than when the new minor is available: - stable/14 was released Nov 2023 - 14.0 support ended Sep 2024, move to 14.1 - 14.1 support ends Mar 2025, move to 14.2 Rinse and repeat. stable/13 was released Apr 2021 and the last minor (13.4) is still supported until Jun 2025, it's four years just like the previous major releases. I don't see how any of this shows an operating system that "lacks basic LTS functionality" or "keeping the distribution coherent" -- especially the latter point is strange considering FreeBSD by design is a lot more "coherent" than Linux (whether that's a good thing or not is completely a matter of taste).