6 ms·

Time management tricks I learned from years of hating Tim Ferris (of the 4 hour work week)

146 points by AlexeyMK 18y ago

edw519 18y ago
I didn't blog about it because...I figured people would say that I'm jealous. You shoulda stuck with your first instinct. It's general knowledge now that The 4 Hour Work Week is a farce, so your hatred only makes you look silly. People here at hn genuinely appreciate good advice. Yours isn't. Move along now.
- michael_dorfman 18y ago
  It seems the one piece of time management advice here is "Don't waste your time dealing with assholes like Tim Ferris", which is good advice, but not exactly a new thought.
- teej 18y ago
  What do you consider a farce about The 4 Hour Work Week?
  - axod 18y ago
    Surely it's as she said in the blog post - it's a matter of semantics. What do you define "Work" to be? If you define it a certain way, most people working 40 hours a week, probably "Work" less than 4 hours. What's the next book though? The 3 hour work week? The 10 minute work year? It's just silly.
    - teej 18y ago
      Have you read the book or followed it at all? Tim Ferris has made it quite clear that the book isn't about working 4 hours a week. The title was picked solely on the response rate in online tests. It's about decreasing inputs and increasing the quality of output.
      - scott_s 18y ago
        So it's purposefully deceitful? And no, I haven't read the book. I don't have time to read a book about getting work done. I have too much work to do.
        teej 18y ago
        "So it's purposefully deceitful?" ... yes? Isn't all marketing a little deceitful? "I don't have time to read a book about getting work done. I have too much work to do." - Are you suggesting I shouldn't read up on programming because I have too much coding to do?
        axod 18y ago
        It's a waste of time though. It's like reading a book called "The Blah diet - how you can loose 10 stone in 2 weeks!" Just eat less and excersize.
        scott_s 18y ago
        I assume a book's title is a representation of its subject and contents. If you violate that assumption, then you've lost my trust and I don't want to read your book. As for time and reading, you certainly should read things you think are valuable. But I doubt the efficacy of methods that sound good, feel good, but have not been tested. What seems to work for me and everyone else I know is working hard. I think I'll stick to that.
        GHFigs 18y ago
        How does that work? You're both rejecting a book for having a title which you feel is misleading and for the content which you assume the title would indicate if it were not misleading. That is literally judging a book by it's cover.
        scott_s 18y ago
        No, it's judging a book by the analysis many people have given.
  - mechanical_fish 18y ago
    Wikipedia: A farce is a comedy written for the stage or film which aims to entertain the audience by means of unlikely, extravagant, and improbable situations, disguise and mistaken identity, verbal humour of varying degrees of sophistication, which may include sexual innuendo and word play, and a fast-paced plot whose speed usually increases, culminating in an ending which often involves an elaborate chase scene. I think we're in the chase scene phase now. But, seriously, yeah: The book is a farce! Quite deliberately so in many parts. The bit where he outsourced his social networking to India? The intent is that you will laugh at that. It's "unlikely, extravagant, and improbable" in a way that's meant more to entertain than to inform. Playing real life as a farce is not a polite style of humor. I've never been a big fan of practical jokes, I'm intrigued by the late Andy Kaufman but I often find him uncomfortable to watch, I can't bring myself to watch Borat and I didn't watch Punk'd. Nor would I ever want to actually see Ferriss hacking his way to a kickboxing championship by exploiting a loophole in the rules -- though perhaps fans of Borat would enjoy watching it, and I find it very funny when it's described abstractly in print.
- jjs 18y ago
  > It's general knowledge now that The 4 Hour Work Week is a farce The book should be read as follows (not listed in chapter order): 1) how to build a business that scales in output in a more than linear proportion to the time you put into it. [and how to avoid nonlucrative or time-intensive businesses]. 2) suggestions of how to spend your time and money in a way that makes the most of both, in terms of quality [assumes you enjoy travel] 3) various useful companies and resources, some specific to US-based businesses that need to drop-ship physical goods 4) stupid chapter on how to skip out on work if you're an employee [with potentially useful tips on how NOT to do it] 5) various inspiration to get off your duff and do things (both in terms of starting your own business, and in traveling and doing things you've always wanted to). The most useful pieces are (1) and (5), followed by (2) and (3) if they apply to you. (4) is the only part that I'd consider farcical, but the rest of the book was interesting enough that I don't sit around wishing for my $20 back. There seems to be a decent contingent of people who hate the book, but I'm more interested in hearing from people who actually tried out the recommendations in the book and failed, especially if they're willing to go into the details of what went wrong.
- motoko 18y ago
  Under other circumstances, this would be trolling, but note that edw519 is the third most voted user of HN (12387 karma). I agree, this author has had a few other toxic posts to HN that, while excellent link bait, significantly reduce the intellectual civility of the community.
mattmaroon 18y ago
Most of those aren't really time management tricks, just reasons for hating Tim Ferris, as anyone with a brain already does (possibly including Tim Ferris).
- axod 18y ago
  Agreed... I'd hate myself if I only got to work 4 hours a week, work is sort of fun. What do you do with the rest of the week? Wallow in self loathing? :)
  - immad 18y ago
    Shouldn't you read the book before you hate him for it? He goes through what he does the rest of the time. (sports, holiday, fun, learning things etc)
    - axod 18y ago
      I don't have time to read the book. Too busy working :) Seriously, the title and whole premise of it isn't something I'm interested in at all.
      - danw 18y ago
        The way he picked the title was interesting. He purchased adwords for a large array of possible book names and then went with the one that got the most click throughs
        axod 18y ago
        Sure, interesting, if all you want to do is sell books to the masses in the short term. If you want some longer lasting credibility, then probably best to choose the title and content some other way.
        run4yourlives 18y ago
        You should really read the book.
craigbellot 18y ago
I loved that book. Found it extremely insightful.
Jasber 18y ago
Who is Penelope Trunk? Her about page reveals little information.
- fallentimes 18y ago
  Paris Hilton: Acting Penelope Trunk: Career Advice
  - anamax 18y ago
    Paris Hilton makes more money acting than the vast majority of professional actors.
    - scott_s 18y ago
      But she's still a terrible person to give advice on acting itself.
raffi 18y ago
"It's childish. It's a childish, semantic game. And it reminds me of him winning the Chinese National Kickboxing Championships by leveraging a little-known rule that people are disqualified if they stop outside the box. So he pushed each of his opponents outside the box to win. He is winning the I-work-less-than-you game with a similarly questionable method: semantics." Sounds like TF is a hacker and she is jealous of his sk33lz.
- ced 18y ago
  I don't know if that qualifies as a hack, but I don't see what's admirable about it, nor is it particularly clever. Should we applaud when a businessman finds a loophole in the tax system? Or when he hires a lawyer to "hack" the justice system?
  - jfornear 18y ago
    Do you think there aren't problems with the tax system or justice system? I know what you are trying to say though.
  - ig1 18y ago
    You bet I do. I'd much rather hire someone clever who finds the optimal solution rather than some career jobber who just hammers out any old solution to get his pay check. Finding optimal solutions is good, whatever industry you're in.
jwesley 18y ago
This blog post made my day. Now if only he can be retroactively removed from the NYT bestseller list. As bad as The Secret...
- MaysonL 18y ago
  If you liked this one, try the one about career women and oral sex:http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2009/01/06/high-income-women-get-more-oral-sex-maybe/ http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2009/01/06/high-income-women-g...
run4yourlives 18y ago
The only thing worse than a blatant self-promoter is somebody that publicly rants about it as if they'd really want to do it too, but can't.
- raphar 18y ago
  You mention ENVY, but HATE is also present.... May be theres some love story gone bad that we dont know about :D
  - run4yourlives 18y ago
    Perhaps, she didn't even want to meet him for coffee.
    - Tichy 18y ago
      She says that NOW, but the reality is that she DID meet him for coffee.
charlesju 18y ago
I can't believe how many people are bashing this book without actually reading the book. The book's title is to catch attention and summarize a goal that uses a lot of little cool "life hacks" that Tim has invented. His book is not so much being lazy or avoiding responsibilities. I got out of it 2 major learning points: 1. How to use your time wisely, either by streamlining human interaction or outsourcing menial jobs. and 2. How to execute on a product business using new web tools and hacks that even I, a veteran web entrepreneur, had very little exposure or knowledge of. Obviously either of those titles would be extremely boring and not sell well, so Tim had to do what he had to do to sell his book. But there is a lot of good stuff, probably one of my top 5 books of all time.

146 points by AlexeyMK 18y ago

I didn't blog about it because...I figured people would say that I'm jealous. You shoulda stuck with your first instinct. It's general knowledge now that The 4 Hour Work Week is a farce, so your hatred only makes you look silly. People here at hn genuinely appreciate good advice. Yours isn't. Move along now.

michael_dorfman 18y ago
It seems the one piece of time management advice here is "Don't waste your time dealing with assholes like Tim Ferris", which is good advice, but not exactly a new thought.
teej 18y ago
What do you consider a farce about The 4 Hour Work Week?
- axod 18y ago
  Surely it's as she said in the blog post - it's a matter of semantics. What do you define "Work" to be? If you define it a certain way, most people working 40 hours a week, probably "Work" less than 4 hours. What's the next book though? The 3 hour work week? The 10 minute work year? It's just silly.
  - teej 18y ago
    Have you read the book or followed it at all? Tim Ferris has made it quite clear that the book isn't about working 4 hours a week. The title was picked solely on the response rate in online tests. It's about decreasing inputs and increasing the quality of output.
    - scott_s 18y ago
      So it's purposefully deceitful? And no, I haven't read the book. I don't have time to read a book about getting work done. I have too much work to do.
      - teej 18y ago
        "So it's purposefully deceitful?" ... yes? Isn't all marketing a little deceitful? "I don't have time to read a book about getting work done. I have too much work to do." - Are you suggesting I shouldn't read up on programming because I have too much coding to do?
        axod 18y ago
        It's a waste of time though. It's like reading a book called "The Blah diet - how you can loose 10 stone in 2 weeks!" Just eat less and excersize.
        scott_s 18y ago
        I assume a book's title is a representation of its subject and contents. If you violate that assumption, then you've lost my trust and I don't want to read your book. As for time and reading, you certainly should read things you think are valuable. But I doubt the efficacy of methods that sound good, feel good, but have not been tested. What seems to work for me and everyone else I know is working hard. I think I'll stick to that.
        GHFigs 18y ago
        How does that work? You're both rejecting a book for having a title which you feel is misleading and for the content which you assume the title would indicate if it were not misleading. That is literally judging a book by it's cover.
        scott_s 18y ago
        No, it's judging a book by the analysis many people have given.
- mechanical_fish 18y ago
  Wikipedia: A farce is a comedy written for the stage or film which aims to entertain the audience by means of unlikely, extravagant, and improbable situations, disguise and mistaken identity, verbal humour of varying degrees of sophistication, which may include sexual innuendo and word play, and a fast-paced plot whose speed usually increases, culminating in an ending which often involves an elaborate chase scene. I think we're in the chase scene phase now. But, seriously, yeah: The book is a farce! Quite deliberately so in many parts. The bit where he outsourced his social networking to India? The intent is that you will laugh at that. It's "unlikely, extravagant, and improbable" in a way that's meant more to entertain than to inform. Playing real life as a farce is not a polite style of humor. I've never been a big fan of practical jokes, I'm intrigued by the late Andy Kaufman but I often find him uncomfortable to watch, I can't bring myself to watch Borat and I didn't watch Punk'd. Nor would I ever want to actually see Ferriss hacking his way to a kickboxing championship by exploiting a loophole in the rules -- though perhaps fans of Borat would enjoy watching it, and I find it very funny when it's described abstractly in print.
jjs 18y ago
> It's general knowledge now that The 4 Hour Work Week is a farce The book should be read as follows (not listed in chapter order): 1) how to build a business that scales in output in a more than linear proportion to the time you put into it. [and how to avoid nonlucrative or time-intensive businesses]. 2) suggestions of how to spend your time and money in a way that makes the most of both, in terms of quality [assumes you enjoy travel] 3) various useful companies and resources, some specific to US-based businesses that need to drop-ship physical goods 4) stupid chapter on how to skip out on work if you're an employee [with potentially useful tips on how NOT to do it] 5) various inspiration to get off your duff and do things (both in terms of starting your own business, and in traveling and doing things you've always wanted to). The most useful pieces are (1) and (5), followed by (2) and (3) if they apply to you. (4) is the only part that I'd consider farcical, but the rest of the book was interesting enough that I don't sit around wishing for my $20 back. There seems to be a decent contingent of people who hate the book, but I'm more interested in hearing from people who actually tried out the recommendations in the book and failed, especially if they're willing to go into the details of what went wrong.
motoko 18y ago
Under other circumstances, this would be trolling, but note that edw519 is the third most voted user of HN (12387 karma). I agree, this author has had a few other toxic posts to HN that, while excellent link bait, significantly reduce the intellectual civility of the community.

mattmaroon 18y ago

Most of those aren't really time management tricks, just reasons for hating Tim Ferris, as anyone with a brain already does (possibly including Tim Ferris).

axod 18y ago
Agreed... I'd hate myself if I only got to work 4 hours a week, work is sort of fun. What do you do with the rest of the week? Wallow in self loathing? :)
- immad 18y ago
  Shouldn't you read the book before you hate him for it? He goes through what he does the rest of the time. (sports, holiday, fun, learning things etc)
  - axod 18y ago
    I don't have time to read the book. Too busy working :) Seriously, the title and whole premise of it isn't something I'm interested in at all.
    - danw 18y ago
      The way he picked the title was interesting. He purchased adwords for a large array of possible book names and then went with the one that got the most click throughs
      - axod 18y ago
        Sure, interesting, if all you want to do is sell books to the masses in the short term. If you want some longer lasting credibility, then probably best to choose the title and content some other way.
        run4yourlives 18y ago
        You should really read the book.

craigbellot 18y ago

I loved that book. Found it extremely insightful.

Jasber 18y ago

Who is Penelope Trunk? Her about page reveals little information.

fallentimes 18y ago
Paris Hilton: Acting Penelope Trunk: Career Advice
- anamax 18y ago
  Paris Hilton makes more money acting than the vast majority of professional actors.
  - scott_s 18y ago
    But she's still a terrible person to give advice on acting itself.

raffi 18y ago

"It's childish. It's a childish, semantic game. And it reminds me of him winning the Chinese National Kickboxing Championships by leveraging a little-known rule that people are disqualified if they stop outside the box. So he pushed each of his opponents outside the box to win. He is winning the I-work-less-than-you game with a similarly questionable method: semantics." Sounds like TF is a hacker and she is jealous of his sk33lz.

ced 18y ago
I don't know if that qualifies as a hack, but I don't see what's admirable about it, nor is it particularly clever. Should we applaud when a businessman finds a loophole in the tax system? Or when he hires a lawyer to "hack" the justice system?
- jfornear 18y ago
  Do you think there aren't problems with the tax system or justice system? I know what you are trying to say though.
- ig1 18y ago
  You bet I do. I'd much rather hire someone clever who finds the optimal solution rather than some career jobber who just hammers out any old solution to get his pay check. Finding optimal solutions is good, whatever industry you're in.

jwesley 18y ago

This blog post made my day. Now if only he can be retroactively removed from the NYT bestseller list. As bad as The Secret...

MaysonL 18y ago
If you liked this one, try the one about career women and oral sex:http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2009/01/06/high-income-women-get-more-oral-sex-maybe/ http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2009/01/06/high-income-women-g...

run4yourlives 18y ago

The only thing worse than a blatant self-promoter is somebody that publicly rants about it as if they'd really want to do it too, but can't.

raphar 18y ago
You mention ENVY, but HATE is also present.... May be theres some love story gone bad that we dont know about :D
- run4yourlives 18y ago
  Perhaps, she didn't even want to meet him for coffee.
  - Tichy 18y ago
    She says that NOW, but the reality is that she DID meet him for coffee.

charlesju 18y ago

I can't believe how many people are bashing this book without actually reading the book. The book's title is to catch attention and summarize a goal that uses a lot of little cool "life hacks" that Tim has invented. His book is not so much being lazy or avoiding responsibilities. I got out of it 2 major learning points: 1. How to use your time wisely, either by streamlining human interaction or outsourcing menial jobs. and 2. How to execute on a product business using new web tools and hacks that even I, a veteran web entrepreneur, had very little exposure or knowledge of. Obviously either of those titles would be extremely boring and not sell well, so Tim had to do what he had to do to sell his book. But there is a lot of good stuff, probably one of my top 5 books of all time.