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Apple granted broad mobile patent
- freehunter 14y ago>"Steve Jobs, former Apple CEO, may finally get his wish and see Android devices ... completely taken off the market." Was the author not reading the news last October?
- salmanapk 14y agoWhat are you referring to?
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- personlurking 14y agothat SJ passed away and the author is using the wrong grammatical tense.
- RobAtticus 14y agoPerhaps I'm being dense, but what is the proper tense? Nothing in that sentence reads to me like the author thinks that Steve is alive (okay, 'see' maybe).
- freehunter 14y agoPersonally I wouldn't have used that sentence at all. If I needed something along those lines, I would have written "Steve Jobs' longtime wish may finally come true ... to see Android devices taken off the market." Just the wording "get" and "see" imply that he could still receive these benefits.
- nuclear_eclipse 14y agoI guess that would depend on your interpretation of the afterlife. There are plenty of people in the world who believe that he is still here, just on a different plane of existence...
- freehunter 14y agoI don't want to get into a spiritual discussion, but I would seriously hope an afterlife would have more interesting things to do that watch your previous world continue on without you.
- smackfu 14y agoI don't really trust anyone to properly interpret patents.
- moron 14y agoNo kidding.
- nicholassmith 14y agoIf Apple decides to use them it'll take years for it to litigate, and they'll probably be proved invalid in the process. Don't fear poor Android phones, you're safe for now.
- backprojection 14y agoI'm curious what happens if you're wrong though. Suppose they successfully push on this and android devices are taken off the market, or priced so high to cover licensing fees that people won't buy them. What recourse does Google have? Presumably they can't sue the patent office for granting ridiculous patents that ultimately drive them out of business.
- huggyface 14y agoApple isn't immune to the patent game either. What if any of the countless assaults on Apple succeed? There are a lot of what ifs. There are millions of patents in play.
- bitwize 14y agoApple isn't immune to the patent game either. What if any of the countless assaults on Apple succeed? Then Apple will simply license the tech, the patent holder will be happy, and life will go on. This is what they did for Xerox's GUI tech that got integrated into the Macintosh; it's what they did for that digital noise filter in the A5 chip, it's what they'll do if anyone tries to sue. Alternately, they could make a hostile takeover bid for Samsung. Think they won't? :) For Apple, it isn't about the money, though. Stealing Apple tech is an assault on their prestige, so they are unlikely to negotiate licensing terms with Android handset makers, and those handset makers are doomed in this market.
- diminish 14y ago>> For Apple, it isn't about the money, though. Stealing Apple tech is an assault on their prestige, so they are unlikely to negotiate licensing terms with Android handset makers, and those handset makers are doomed in this market. Never saw such a low quality analysis on HN, lately. For Motorola too then maybe it isnt about money, really?
- StavrosK 14y agoDon't be silly, that would mean that something would change in the patent system.
- watmough 14y agoApple fanboi that I am, freely admitted, my Nexus 7 is wonderful, and I think the granting of this entire patent is insane.
- huggyface 14y agoRidiculous headline (the submission simply mirroring the original article) that is the sort of hysterical end-of-times interpretation of patents that has yielded so many nonsensical, time-wasting discussions before.
- lmm 14y agoIt's entirely possible the submission was originally made with a better headline, and then mod-edited to match the article.
- wwwtyro 14y agoSo, my question is: given all the controversy in the (tech) media over patents lately, how is the patent office able to rationalize granting (what appears to me to be) a very bad patent?
- notatoad 14y agothe patent office doesn't give a fuck. as long as you pay the filing fee and fill out all the right checkboxes in the right color ink, the mindless drone in the cubicle will rubber-stamp it.
- noonespecial 14y agoThere is no rational thinking at all going on at the patent office. They reject your initial application a few times to make sure you're good and rich and then grant it figuring the courts will work it out.
- kbutler 14y agoThat's what they do. USPTO: "The mission of the patent business area is to help our customers get patents; its performance goal is to grant patents to inventors for their discoveries. " http://www.uspto.gov/about/stratplan/ar/1998/a98r-2.jsp http://www.uspto.gov/about/stratplan/ar/1998/a98r-2.jsp I think it is significant that the mission is not "to promote the progress of science and the useful arts by [whatever]" It is simply to "help our customers get patents." To be fair, the 2011 annual report says the mission is: "Fostering innovation, competitiveness and economic growth, domestically and abroad to deliver high quality and timely examination of patent and trademark applications, guiding domestic and international intellectual property policy, and delivering intellectual property information and education worldwide, with a highly skilled, diverse workforce." http://www.uspto.gov/about/stratplan/ar/2011/mda_01.html http://www.uspto.gov/about/stratplan/ar/2011/mda_01.html
- evilmushroom 14y agoHmm.. brb patenting the process of applying for a patent.
- mindcrime 14y agoI think IBM actually have a patent on "patent trolling."[1] [1]: http://slashdot.org/story/11/01/02/1534223/ibm-files-the-patent-troll-patent http://slashdot.org/story/11/01/02/1534223/ibm-files-the-pat...
- evilmushroom 14y agodoh! foiled again.
- fpp 14y agoand the recently patented wheel or the wooden stick (to throw your dog)
- bcrescimanno 14y agoI'm not entirely sure why this is surprising news to anybody; in the original iPhone announcement, I believe Steve Jobs said, "...and boy have we patented it." Let's be frank: Apple is not the only major technology company with a massive collection of questionable patents that they could use to stifle their competition. The system, as it is today, basically forces companies into these patents because if they don't patent it someone else will. To put it colloquially: "Don't hate the player, hate the game."
- ajross 14y agoThat "could" is doing way too much work in that sentence. Yes, all the other patent holders "could" file ridiculous suits and bring the tech economy down, in the same way that the US "could" launch a nuclear first strike against china. The thing is, for the most part they aren't, and haven't, over several decades of detente. Apple did. I think that distinction matters, no?
- bcrescimanno 14y agoI think it'd be interesting to put that assertion to the test: has Apple really been more litigious with their patent portfolio than Oracle, Microsoft, IBM, and Google (as totally random examples pulled from thin air)? I'm honestly not sure of the answer; but, I'm skeptical that Apple is "worse" than other major tech companies in this regard.
- mrich 14y agoAll other companies typically recognize that nobody ever invented anything on their own and the industry would be dead if products were banned because of infringements. So they settle either for royalties or a cross-licensing deal. Not so with Apple. They want Android smartphones banned from the market.
- ajross 14y agoExactly, it's not so much the suits themselves as the goal they're pursuing. To extend the OP's metaphor, it's not enough to "hate the game" when one player is trying to change the rules. (To be clear, though, the game is indeed a terrible thing.)
- Sidnicious 14y ago> We can’t take all of our energy and all of our care and finish the painting, then have someone else put their name on it. What a load of shit. What happened to “great artists steal”? Great art must be stolen to inspire new, greater art. The iPhone is awesome. May a thousand devices like it bloom.
- adventureful 14y agoIt became an inconvenient statement once Apple conquered the known universe. As is so typical with power and success.
- grecy 14y ago> What a load of shit. What happened to “great artists steal”? Great art must be stolen to inspire new, greater art. You'd be totally cool with me stealing the side project you've poured heart and soul into for 5 years, to sell it to an overseas company that floods the market for 1/10 the price?
- option_greek 14y agoAssuming they did it from scratch and not shipping the assemblies outright, I don't see what the issue is.
- jbigelow76 14y agoBy referencing "great artists steal" I think the OP was referring more to the hypocrisy of Apple as opposed to indignation. Here is the youtube video of Jobs saying that Apple shamelessly steals: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU Given that Jobs credits Picasso with the "great artists steal" quote and Tim Cook making an analogy about "finishing the painting" the whole thing is quite ironic.
- Samuel_Michon 14y ago“What happened to “great artists steal”?” That's because the inverse isn't valid. Not every thief is a great artist. Steve Jobs and Tim Cook apparently didn't consider Android to be great art. The original quote, to put in context what Jobs was referring to: “One of the surest tests [of the superiority or inferiority of a poet] is the way in which a poet borrows. Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different. The good poet welds his theft into a whole of feeling which is unique, utterly different than that from which it is torn; the bad poet throws it into something which has no cohesion. A good poet will usually borrow from authors remote in time, or alien in language, or diverse in interest.” —Philip Massinger http://nancyprager.wordpress.com/2007/05/08/good-poets-borrow-great-poets-steal/ http://nancyprager.wordpress.com/2007/05/08/good-poets-borro... NB: Jobs mistakenly attributed it to Picasso, who never said such a thing. Jobs probably read Richardson’s biography of Picasso, in which the text is misquoted and attributed to T.S. Eliot.
- VanL 14y agoThe hyperventilating in this article is ridiculous. First, patents always issue on a Thursday - and any large company usually has a number in the pipe. There is nothing unusual about a company the size of Apple getting 25 patents issued in one release. Now, I haven't read all of the 25 patents issued to Apple, but this article makes the classic mistake of confounding the specification (which describes lots of stuff) and the claims (which describe what is protected). Here is what this patent is actually about: 1. A method, comprising: at a portable multifunction device with a touch screen display: displaying a portion of an electronic document on the touch screen display, wherein the displayed portion of the electronic document has a vertical position in the electronic document; displaying a vertical bar on top of the displayed portion of the electronic document, the vertical bar displayed proximate to a vertical edge of the displayed portion of the electronic document, wherein: the vertical bar has a vertical position on top of the displayed portion of the electronic document that corresponds to the vertical position in the electronic document of the displayed portion of the electronic document; and the vertical bar is not a scroll bar; detecting a movement of an object in a direction on the displayed portion of the electronic document; in response to detecting the movement: scrolling the electronic document displayed on the touch screen display in the direction of movement of the object so that a new portion of the electronic document is displayed, moving the vertical bar to a new vertical position such that the new vertical position corresponds to the vertical position in the electronic document of the displayed new portion of the electronic document, and maintaining the vertical bar proximate to the vertical edge of the displayed portion of the electronic document; and in response to a predetermined condition being met, ceasing to display the vertical bar while continuing to display the displayed portion of the electronic document, wherein the displayed portion of the electronic document has a vertical extent that is less than a vertical extent of the electronic document. Translated from patent-speak, this just means that the little position indicator along the side of the display indicates where you are in a document. Further claims indicate that the position indicator disappears when you don't do anything for a minute. Anyone who has seen iOS (or Mac OS X Lion) has seen it. If I were Google, though, I wouldn't care about this patent. Why not? Because of the words "and the vertical bar is not a scroll bar." These words were added to get around prior art. All Google would need to do is allow its position indicator to also function as a scroll bar and this patent doesn't apply. I am annoyed by patents as much as the next guy - more, even, because I deal with them every day - but this kind of breathlessness helps absolutely no one.
- mattmaroon 14y agoAnyone who thinks this is a death-knell for Android (especially any time soon) doesn't understand how patent law works in practice.
- jack-r-abbit 14y agoAndroid won't be killed off. There will always be an Android. "If you outlaw Android, only outlaws will have Android." - Anon.
- majorapps 14y agoI honestly believe that this is the beginning of the end for the patent system. If this was granted and enforced we would see something along the lines of the advertising mantra: "good advertising the the fastest way to kill a bad product"
- richworks 14y ago"It could kill off Android completely in the US and not anywhere else." Granted, the US is a major market for Android but these patent disputes will get laughed at in the UK courts and others as we have seen so far.
- Rhymenocerus 14y agoHoorah for us all, even less viable products for us to choose from! I don't understand why people look up to Jobs, but still hate Bill Gates for his business practices during the 90's. "Picasso had a saying - 'Good artists copy, great artists steal.' And we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas." - Steve Jobs
- arrowgunz 14y agoCompetition is what drives companies to create better products. Without that there would be very little progress in innovation. I am an Apple fanboy and still hope nothing happens to Android.
- greyfade 14y agoTrouble is, broad patents effectively outlaw competition.
- joeycfan 14y agoThis is typical of the grasping capitalism that moves in on what the geeks have created.
- seclorum 14y agoWell, that seals it. My next Tablet will be based on 100% open sources. I will now proceed to build an Ubuntu-based tablet to replace the iPad form-factor.. boots up laser cutter and 3d printer .. </dream>
- spc476 14y agoIt sounds like a reprise of the Apple vs. Microsoft "Look-and-feel" lawsuits of the mid 80s, only with patents, not copyright.