5 ms·

Yes, or just unlucky. The goal of my proposal is not to create equality, but to establish a minimum below which people cannot fall.

MichaelZuo 2y ago
Who gets to determine the minimum threshold? And how will they enforce it?
- titaniumtown 2y ago
  The government and laws?
  - MichaelZuo 2y ago
    Which part of what government? With what legal basis? Things aren’t magically legal and viable in the real world just because an HN user imagines it.
    - wpm 2y ago
      Most liberal democracies have provision within their founding documents and case law to allow for central governments at all levels to provide for the general welfare. You are asking highly vague implementation details about a small hypothetical. It comes off as incredibly rude and like you're fishing for some answer you already mentally dunked on.
      - MichaelZuo 2y ago
        Why does your opinion matter more than anyone else’s opinion here? Even if you believe my previous questions were too opinionated, responding with even more can only be detrimental, and it is not going to lead anywhere productive. For example, try making a substantive argument as to how a credible enforcement system would come into existence. Otherwise the default assumption is that it will not turn out any better than already existing government systems.
        saagarjha 2y ago
        I'll add a second opinion to that. Still feeling smug about it?
        MichaelZuo 2y ago
        Smug about an argument I haven’t seen? What do you believe is the actual argument…?
        saagarjha 2y ago
        The part where you like to go around being annoying and then when people get upset retreating to "my opinion is just as valuable as yours". Which I think is stupid, except this time I'm not even going to engage on that and directly say that I also agree with their position, which means that not only is your opinion dumb it is also in the minority.
        MichaelZuo 2y ago
        This seems incoherent, how does this relate to the prior comment? And why would the number of users expressing opinions even matter? Edit: I’m not here to score points, so it seems irrelevant in any comment chain whatsoever.
        saagarjha 2y ago
        Do you have an actual direction you want to take this conversation, or will you just keep asking questions like this that seemingly nobody can satiate? What do you gain from doing this? (Speaking in my own words again: I am going to be very, very explicit here. You have a habit of asking super vague questions which require people to do a massive amount of work for you to explain their position while you can sit and continue at little cost to you: a sort of verbal DoS. Except we're not computers, we are people, and nobody takes kindly to this. When they inform you of this you retreat to "ok, and why should I listen to you?" which is even worse. I think you should take a good look at how you communicate with other people and see if you frequently leave them upset and unwilling to continue talking to you. Maybe you should direct one of your questions at yourself for why they keep doing that, such that you have to keep replying like this: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=michaelzuo%20opinion%20than&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que....)
- crazyeights 2y ago
  Most people have little to no money, hence being without the ability to afford housing. You’re obviously not familiar with the social security system we have in place now. The only thing lacking is the inspiration to escape that system as Medicaid and social security insurance don’t allow for any savings so participants are frightened to lose the only thing keeping them and their family alive. Provide them with housing at no expense, higher education at no expense, and a food stipend and you’ll see a lot more success and a lot less homeless.
  - skirge 2y ago
    anyone can hide and claim they have no money, better to provide housing to good students with good job. We can call it I don't know, "credit score" or something like that.
  - Ekaros 2y ago
    Just pay them money which they can spend on housing. Either from free market or from social housing. Lot of housing in Finland is run and owned by municipalities and those units are rented just like others. Only the biggest fuckups go into system where money is directly paid to city for the housing. You do have leeches, but well it is probably lot cheaper in long run than not paying. Like for example my car has never been broken into. And I haven't heard theft being any way rampant.
- dh2022 2y ago
  Enter now a bureaucracy who will ask the right questions, involve all the stakeholders, foster an environment of trust and cooperation, coordinate across organizations, proactively address any issues, create a people-first strategy, etc... Meanwhile nothing gets built....
  - skirge 2y ago
    or just bribe the person who is assigning flats: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v7eSQJWxc4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v7eSQJWxc4, because this system was already tried.

MichaelZuo 2y ago

Who gets to determine the minimum threshold? And how will they enforce it?

titaniumtown 2y ago
The government and laws?
- MichaelZuo 2y ago
  Which part of what government? With what legal basis? Things aren’t magically legal and viable in the real world just because an HN user imagines it.
  - wpm 2y ago
    Most liberal democracies have provision within their founding documents and case law to allow for central governments at all levels to provide for the general welfare. You are asking highly vague implementation details about a small hypothetical. It comes off as incredibly rude and like you're fishing for some answer you already mentally dunked on.
    - MichaelZuo 2y ago
      Why does your opinion matter more than anyone else’s opinion here? Even if you believe my previous questions were too opinionated, responding with even more can only be detrimental, and it is not going to lead anywhere productive. For example, try making a substantive argument as to how a credible enforcement system would come into existence. Otherwise the default assumption is that it will not turn out any better than already existing government systems.
      - saagarjha 2y ago
        I'll add a second opinion to that. Still feeling smug about it?
        MichaelZuo 2y ago
        Smug about an argument I haven’t seen? What do you believe is the actual argument…?
        saagarjha 2y ago
        The part where you like to go around being annoying and then when people get upset retreating to "my opinion is just as valuable as yours". Which I think is stupid, except this time I'm not even going to engage on that and directly say that I also agree with their position, which means that not only is your opinion dumb it is also in the minority.
        MichaelZuo 2y ago
        This seems incoherent, how does this relate to the prior comment? And why would the number of users expressing opinions even matter? Edit: I’m not here to score points, so it seems irrelevant in any comment chain whatsoever.
        saagarjha 2y ago
        Do you have an actual direction you want to take this conversation, or will you just keep asking questions like this that seemingly nobody can satiate? What do you gain from doing this? (Speaking in my own words again: I am going to be very, very explicit here. You have a habit of asking super vague questions which require people to do a massive amount of work for you to explain their position while you can sit and continue at little cost to you: a sort of verbal DoS. Except we're not computers, we are people, and nobody takes kindly to this. When they inform you of this you retreat to "ok, and why should I listen to you?" which is even worse. I think you should take a good look at how you communicate with other people and see if you frequently leave them upset and unwilling to continue talking to you. Maybe you should direct one of your questions at yourself for why they keep doing that, such that you have to keep replying like this: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=michaelzuo%20opinion%20than&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que....)
crazyeights 2y ago
Most people have little to no money, hence being without the ability to afford housing. You’re obviously not familiar with the social security system we have in place now. The only thing lacking is the inspiration to escape that system as Medicaid and social security insurance don’t allow for any savings so participants are frightened to lose the only thing keeping them and their family alive. Provide them with housing at no expense, higher education at no expense, and a food stipend and you’ll see a lot more success and a lot less homeless.
- skirge 2y ago
  anyone can hide and claim they have no money, better to provide housing to good students with good job. We can call it I don't know, "credit score" or something like that.
- Ekaros 2y ago
  Just pay them money which they can spend on housing. Either from free market or from social housing. Lot of housing in Finland is run and owned by municipalities and those units are rented just like others. Only the biggest fuckups go into system where money is directly paid to city for the housing. You do have leeches, but well it is probably lot cheaper in long run than not paying. Like for example my car has never been broken into. And I haven't heard theft being any way rampant.
dh2022 2y ago
Enter now a bureaucracy who will ask the right questions, involve all the stakeholders, foster an environment of trust and cooperation, coordinate across organizations, proactively address any issues, create a people-first strategy, etc... Meanwhile nothing gets built....
- skirge 2y ago
  or just bribe the person who is assigning flats: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v7eSQJWxc4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v7eSQJWxc4, because this system was already tried.