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AMD says Intel's 'horrible product' is causing Ryzen 7 9800X3D shortages

50 points by doener 2y ago

tedunangst 2y ago
Would AMD be happier if inventory was piling up?
sillywalk 2y ago
I thought that this was going to be about AMD depending on some horrible Intel part, not that Intel made a crappy processor, so more people are going for AMD.
- bjconlan 2y ago
  I think it indirectly is (in the form of TSMC) as Intel have started to use TSMC fabs for some of their processor lines and I think this is eating into AMD (and other TSMC customers) production. They had the same problem with apple and the 4nm fabs, but couldn't exactly say anything as smearish.
  - sillywalk 2y ago
    It ooks like you're right. A quick check shows Intel outsourced Arrow Lake (or parts of it) to TSMC. As a side note, I wish Intel would move to a different non-lake naming scheme.
    - gjsman-1000 2y ago
      Coffee Lake was cute; but at least it made more sense than a lake made of arrows.
      - AlotOfReading 2y ago
        The codenames are supposedly from real places because you can't trademark geographic names.
    - wtallis 2y ago
      At the end of 2023, Intel shipped Meteor Lake, where all but one chiplet were made by TSMC. Arrow Lake updates that chiplet (the one with the CPU cores) to also be made at TSMC, though on the older N3B process rather than the better N3E process that AMD is using. Intel's current low-power laptop processor (Lunar Lake) is also all TSMC. The only thing Intel is making for their current-generation consumer products is the passive silicon interposer all these chiplets are mounted on.
      - phonon 2y ago
        Arrow Lake-U is an updated Meteor Lake on Intel 3. "The Intel Core Ultra 200U series processors utilize the Redwood Cove (P-core) architecture, which originally debuted in Intel Core Ultra Series 1 processors and Crestmont (E-core) architecture that is found throughout the Intel Core Ultra Series 2 family of processors,” an Intel spokesman said in an email. “However, the Intel Core Ultra 200U series is built on the Intel 3 process node, rather than the Intel 4 process used for Intel Core Ultra Series 1 processors, which helps improve performance of the processor overall."[0] [0] https://www.pcworld.com/article/2568168/intel-debuts-arrow-lake-for-laptops-with-core-h-hx-chips.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/2568168/intel-debuts-arrow-l...
        wtallis 2y ago
        Ah, interesting. Intel likes to do weird things with the smallest mobile chips.
teleforce 2y ago
This reminds me of a popular saying attributed to Napoleon "Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
accrual 2y ago
I'm grateful I was able to pick up one of these, it's a speedy chip indeed. This round of AMD vs Intel kind of reminds me of the battles for top performance in the 90s, each side trading blows with another 100MHz and a bit more cache every few months. It was an exciting time and it's great to see AMD pulling ahead again. > "Our goal is that leadership product in every segment, and I'm not going to talk about unannounced products," replied Intel's Jim Johnson, Corporate VP and GM of Client Engineering. I wonder if Intel actually has something new in the pipeline. I was holding out for their new chips before starting a new build and the new "Core Ultra" line didn't impress me, but it's also clearly a new chiplet design that will be around for a while and should have room for improvements now that the big shift to chiplet is underway.
- rasz 2y ago
  >in the 90s, each side trading blows with another 100MHz and a bit more cache every few months AMD was uncompetitive during whole nineties, their very best and most expensive K5/K6/-2/-3 chips were losing to Pentiums/Celerons in everything but simple word processing (Winstone). Only the very last AMD CPU of 1999, $799 Athlon 750 $799 was finally competitive against $803 Pentium III 750. You must be thinking of 2000-2006 when AMD beat Intel to 1GHz, 64bit and dual core.
  - accrual 2y ago
    Thanks, rasz! I was still a kid during that time so unfortunately I don't have first hand experience. I will happily defer to your experience! My comment came from a couple of post-era experiences: * The Am486-DX4-100 benches nearly (or just a bit below) the Intel DX4-100 in my own testing. I thought it was less expensive at the time, but I haven't checked prices * The K6-3 was able to match early Pentium II performance for a lower cost, at least in my personal testing. I have a modded K6-3+ at 600MHz and it exceeds some P2 CPUs in Phil's benchmark tests, though naturally it's not a part many people had around back then * AMD 386-DX40 was also apparently a high performing part and I'm happy to have acquired one recently, though I'm unfamiliar with prices and I have little to compare with. Just received some new parts (external battery & 128MB CF cards) to help me get into testing this platform Those other landmarks you describe are definitely very interesting and noteworthy, though! It was quite cool to see AMD first to 1GHz, 64-bit, and dual core. One of my favorite retro rigs is a maxed out AMD K7 system, the last of their 32-bit platform and in my opinion the end of the 32-bit era, though Intel kept pushing 32-bit parts for a while. I've been an Intel fan for most of my life, but as I get older I'm finding a lot of appreciation for AMD and my main PC is AMD for the first time ever as of the 9800X3D release. :)

50 points by doener 2y ago

Would AMD be happier if inventory was piling up?

I thought that this was going to be about AMD depending on some horrible Intel part, not that Intel made a crappy processor, so more people are going for AMD.

bjconlan 2y ago
I think it indirectly is (in the form of TSMC) as Intel have started to use TSMC fabs for some of their processor lines and I think this is eating into AMD (and other TSMC customers) production. They had the same problem with apple and the 4nm fabs, but couldn't exactly say anything as smearish.
- sillywalk 2y ago
  It ooks like you're right. A quick check shows Intel outsourced Arrow Lake (or parts of it) to TSMC. As a side note, I wish Intel would move to a different non-lake naming scheme.
  - gjsman-1000 2y ago
    Coffee Lake was cute; but at least it made more sense than a lake made of arrows.
    - AlotOfReading 2y ago
      The codenames are supposedly from real places because you can't trademark geographic names.
  - wtallis 2y ago
    At the end of 2023, Intel shipped Meteor Lake, where all but one chiplet were made by TSMC. Arrow Lake updates that chiplet (the one with the CPU cores) to also be made at TSMC, though on the older N3B process rather than the better N3E process that AMD is using. Intel's current low-power laptop processor (Lunar Lake) is also all TSMC. The only thing Intel is making for their current-generation consumer products is the passive silicon interposer all these chiplets are mounted on.
    - phonon 2y ago
      Arrow Lake-U is an updated Meteor Lake on Intel 3. "The Intel Core Ultra 200U series processors utilize the Redwood Cove (P-core) architecture, which originally debuted in Intel Core Ultra Series 1 processors and Crestmont (E-core) architecture that is found throughout the Intel Core Ultra Series 2 family of processors,” an Intel spokesman said in an email. “However, the Intel Core Ultra 200U series is built on the Intel 3 process node, rather than the Intel 4 process used for Intel Core Ultra Series 1 processors, which helps improve performance of the processor overall."[0] [0] https://www.pcworld.com/article/2568168/intel-debuts-arrow-lake-for-laptops-with-core-h-hx-chips.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/2568168/intel-debuts-arrow-l...
      - wtallis 2y ago
        Ah, interesting. Intel likes to do weird things with the smallest mobile chips.

teleforce 2y ago

This reminds me of a popular saying attributed to Napoleon "Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."

accrual 2y ago

I'm grateful I was able to pick up one of these, it's a speedy chip indeed. This round of AMD vs Intel kind of reminds me of the battles for top performance in the 90s, each side trading blows with another 100MHz and a bit more cache every few months. It was an exciting time and it's great to see AMD pulling ahead again. > "Our goal is that leadership product in every segment, and I'm not going to talk about unannounced products," replied Intel's Jim Johnson, Corporate VP and GM of Client Engineering. I wonder if Intel actually has something new in the pipeline. I was holding out for their new chips before starting a new build and the new "Core Ultra" line didn't impress me, but it's also clearly a new chiplet design that will be around for a while and should have room for improvements now that the big shift to chiplet is underway.

rasz 2y ago
>in the 90s, each side trading blows with another 100MHz and a bit more cache every few months AMD was uncompetitive during whole nineties, their very best and most expensive K5/K6/-2/-3 chips were losing to Pentiums/Celerons in everything but simple word processing (Winstone). Only the very last AMD CPU of 1999, $799 Athlon 750 $799 was finally competitive against $803 Pentium III 750. You must be thinking of 2000-2006 when AMD beat Intel to 1GHz, 64bit and dual core.
- accrual 2y ago
  Thanks, rasz! I was still a kid during that time so unfortunately I don't have first hand experience. I will happily defer to your experience! My comment came from a couple of post-era experiences: * The Am486-DX4-100 benches nearly (or just a bit below) the Intel DX4-100 in my own testing. I thought it was less expensive at the time, but I haven't checked prices * The K6-3 was able to match early Pentium II performance for a lower cost, at least in my personal testing. I have a modded K6-3+ at 600MHz and it exceeds some P2 CPUs in Phil's benchmark tests, though naturally it's not a part many people had around back then * AMD 386-DX40 was also apparently a high performing part and I'm happy to have acquired one recently, though I'm unfamiliar with prices and I have little to compare with. Just received some new parts (external battery & 128MB CF cards) to help me get into testing this platform Those other landmarks you describe are definitely very interesting and noteworthy, though! It was quite cool to see AMD first to 1GHz, 64-bit, and dual core. One of my favorite retro rigs is a maxed out AMD K7 system, the last of their 32-bit platform and in my opinion the end of the 32-bit era, though Intel kept pushing 32-bit parts for a while. I've been an Intel fan for most of my life, but as I get older I'm finding a lot of appreciation for AMD and my main PC is AMD for the first time ever as of the 9800X3D release. :)