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> Why should Americans compete with the whole world for domestic jobs? Because its the global market. Why should other countries allow Coke to sell in their ma

> Why should Americans compete with the whole world for domestic jobs? Because its the global market. Why should other countries allow Coke to sell in their markets and depress local soda companies? A person is just an LLC selling their goods/services. Immigration is no different to customs. All countries are hypocrites, and everything sucks.

slt2021 2y ago
Why American corporations like automakers can lobby to impose tariffs and extract more money from American consumers, but there are no protections for labor? If Tesla/GM are so good in this beautiful global market, they dont need no tariffs on Chinese EVs. Zero tariffs in all imports since it is beautiful global market and competition is good and all tariffs are paid by American consumers
- jltsiren 2y ago
  The protections for labor are far stronger. Companies are allowed to do business in a foreign country by default, while employment is banned by default. If you want to get employed, you have to apply for a special permit, which can be difficult and time-consuming to get. The terms of the permit are often also very restrictive.
  - slt2021 2y ago
    its about relative change in power dynamics, not only absolute position. American Labor should never support policies that will harm labor and benefit capitalist class (at least without some negotiation). US citizens should not support policies that will harm working class and benefit employer/capitalist class
    - jltsiren 2y ago
      This is not about capitalists vs. working class. It's about upper middle class vs. capitalists, middle class, and working class. When you grow up in an export-driven country, one thing you learn early is that high wages are bad for the economy. And when the economy is bad, it's the ordinary people who suffer the most. You generally want to keep the labor share of GDP constant, which means that wages should grow about as fast as GDP per capita. If the wages grow faster than that in a field, it's probably bad for the economy. Especially if the field was already highly paid. Unusually high wages typically indicate low productivity (when measured in outputs per dollar). And when productivity is low, businesses that rely on the outputs of that field become less competitive. For example, if making software is more expensive in the US than in other developed countries, American businesses cannot afford to use it as much as their foreign competitors.
      - slt2021 2y ago
        Oh it is absolutely labor vs capital. I will answer with a picture: https://aneconomicsense.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/real-gdp-per-capita-median-weekly-earnings-1980-2013.png https://aneconomicsense.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/real-... you can overlay in your mind chart of FAANG stock total return or VC total returns to compare returns to Capital vs wages the article: https://aneconomicsense.org/2015/02/13/why-wages-have-stagnated-while-gdp-has-grown-the-proximate-factors/ https://aneconomicsense.org/2015/02/13/why-wages-have-stagna... There is a reason why USA has at-will employment (to screw over labor) and import tariffs (to protect capital)
- liquid_thyme 2y ago
  >Why American corporations like automakers can lobby to impose tariffs and extract more money from American consumers, Because they can buy the politicians to protect their own interest. Simple as that, no mystery, case closed. Labor needs to start voting in better politicians.
  - slt2021 2y ago
    > Labor needs to start voting in better politicians. who and where they are? these so called "better" politicians? I think we cannot vote our way out of this and only next level solutions like revolution or protest or "Luigi solution" will make labor's voice heard. Remember, labor/working class vastly outnumber capitalist class (and have more weapons thanks to 2nd amendment) and capitalists were, are, and will always be scared to death when American labor gains class conscience and starts demanding what they are owed by the capitalist class
    - liquid_thyme 2y ago
      Bernie
Argonaut998 2y ago
No, people are not corporations despite what Haraari et al. would love you to think. This does not benefit US citizens. It benefits corporate profits. Your point is moot anyway since countries, including the USA, have protectionist policies.
- liquid_thyme 2y ago
  >This does not benefit US citizens. And? Yes, we know it doesn't benefit US citizens. How many citizens filter for products made by American workers when making purchasing decisions? People want cheap shit, except when it comes to their own jobs.
  - slt2021 2y ago
    and why should US citizens support policies that actively harm them, by voting for politicians that want to impose such policies?
    - liquid_thyme 2y ago
      they shouldn't, but my point was everyone is a hypocrite here, because secretly we know that protectionism is necessary, and it works - despite proclamations that companies in a capitalist model embrace competition and employees want meritocracy.

slt2021 2y ago

Why American corporations like automakers can lobby to impose tariffs and extract more money from American consumers, but there are no protections for labor? If Tesla/GM are so good in this beautiful global market, they dont need no tariffs on Chinese EVs. Zero tariffs in all imports since it is beautiful global market and competition is good and all tariffs are paid by American consumers

jltsiren 2y ago
The protections for labor are far stronger. Companies are allowed to do business in a foreign country by default, while employment is banned by default. If you want to get employed, you have to apply for a special permit, which can be difficult and time-consuming to get. The terms of the permit are often also very restrictive.
- slt2021 2y ago
  its about relative change in power dynamics, not only absolute position. American Labor should never support policies that will harm labor and benefit capitalist class (at least without some negotiation). US citizens should not support policies that will harm working class and benefit employer/capitalist class
  - jltsiren 2y ago
    This is not about capitalists vs. working class. It's about upper middle class vs. capitalists, middle class, and working class. When you grow up in an export-driven country, one thing you learn early is that high wages are bad for the economy. And when the economy is bad, it's the ordinary people who suffer the most. You generally want to keep the labor share of GDP constant, which means that wages should grow about as fast as GDP per capita. If the wages grow faster than that in a field, it's probably bad for the economy. Especially if the field was already highly paid. Unusually high wages typically indicate low productivity (when measured in outputs per dollar). And when productivity is low, businesses that rely on the outputs of that field become less competitive. For example, if making software is more expensive in the US than in other developed countries, American businesses cannot afford to use it as much as their foreign competitors.
    - slt2021 2y ago
      Oh it is absolutely labor vs capital. I will answer with a picture: https://aneconomicsense.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/real-gdp-per-capita-median-weekly-earnings-1980-2013.png https://aneconomicsense.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/real-... you can overlay in your mind chart of FAANG stock total return or VC total returns to compare returns to Capital vs wages the article: https://aneconomicsense.org/2015/02/13/why-wages-have-stagnated-while-gdp-has-grown-the-proximate-factors/ https://aneconomicsense.org/2015/02/13/why-wages-have-stagna... There is a reason why USA has at-will employment (to screw over labor) and import tariffs (to protect capital)
liquid_thyme 2y ago
>Why American corporations like automakers can lobby to impose tariffs and extract more money from American consumers, Because they can buy the politicians to protect their own interest. Simple as that, no mystery, case closed. Labor needs to start voting in better politicians.
- slt2021 2y ago
  > Labor needs to start voting in better politicians. who and where they are? these so called "better" politicians? I think we cannot vote our way out of this and only next level solutions like revolution or protest or "Luigi solution" will make labor's voice heard. Remember, labor/working class vastly outnumber capitalist class (and have more weapons thanks to 2nd amendment) and capitalists were, are, and will always be scared to death when American labor gains class conscience and starts demanding what they are owed by the capitalist class
  - liquid_thyme 2y ago
    Bernie

Argonaut998 2y ago

No, people are not corporations despite what Haraari et al. would love you to think. This does not benefit US citizens. It benefits corporate profits. Your point is moot anyway since countries, including the USA, have protectionist policies.

liquid_thyme 2y ago
>This does not benefit US citizens. And? Yes, we know it doesn't benefit US citizens. How many citizens filter for products made by American workers when making purchasing decisions? People want cheap shit, except when it comes to their own jobs.
- slt2021 2y ago
  and why should US citizens support policies that actively harm them, by voting for politicians that want to impose such policies?
  - liquid_thyme 2y ago
    they shouldn't, but my point was everyone is a hypocrite here, because secretly we know that protectionism is necessary, and it works - despite proclamations that companies in a capitalist model embrace competition and employees want meritocracy.