5 ms·

When a winter storm trapped a luxury passenger train near Donner Pass

146 points by pseudolus 2y ago

paulgerhardt 2y ago
>If a debacle on this scale is surprising today... I used to think of American passenger train travel as this romantic affair until being similarly stranded in an Amtrak the Cascade's for 24 hours with no cell or heat back in 2019 (thankfully no carbon monoxide poisoning either.)[1] Now I say leave the rails to freight. 500tmpg is a pretty good multiple over sending things via truck and about 14x more efficient than sending the same weight in passengers. Despite common ignorance, our freight rail is the best in the world. [1] https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/2019/02/amtrak-train-stranded-near-eugene-since-sunday-after-hitting-tree-on-tracks.html https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/2019/02/am...
- colonelspace 2y ago
  If I could travel by train domestically in the USA as is common in Europe, I would prefer it. It's a real shame that the USA has yet to develop decent passenger trains.
  - cheeze 2y ago
    Seriously. EU rail is great! Show up 15 minutes before my train leaves, sit on my phone (albeit often without reception) and pass the time sitting at a comfy table. I took a first class trip in Italy recently. Food was fine and it's Italy, but those seats were very comfortable!
  - vkou 2y ago
    Likewise, it's a real shame that Europe has yet to develop cheap cargo trains. Perhaps both regions should look into doubling their rail networks.
    - gambiting 2y ago
      Where in Europe doesn't have cheap cargo trains? I used to live next to a train line in Poland and the cargo trains never stop going, there's so much cargo being moved by rail that the lines are almost always at capacity.
      - TMWNN 2y ago
        vkou is correct. The US freight rail system is the best and cheapest in the world, and has a larger share of freight shipping than in other countries. <https://archive.is/20240502094047/https://www.economist.com/briefing/2010/07/22/high-speed-railroading https://archive.is/20240502094047/https://www.economist.com/...>
      - vkou 2y ago
        Measured in mile-tonnes, ~40% of US cargo travels by rail. Meanwhile, only ~20% of EU cargo travels by rail. The US prioritizes freight on its rail network, the EU prioritizes passenger service.
        PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
        This is disingenous. There is no "rail network" about which the US (through some political process) makes decisions about prioritization. There is a freight rail network, and there is Amtrak's rails between Boston and DC. That's it. We're not prioritizing freight, the network is owned by freight companies. Also, with regards to percentages, this is the wrong comparison. The numbers you need (which I could not find) are what percentage of cargo travels to within Nkm of its destination by trail in the USA, where N is the typical value for Europe. We have substantial freight hauling in the US because of long distance journeys. The last Nkm is generally done by truck. In Europe, there is much less long distance freight hauling, and much more hauling that takes place under the Nkm "limit", ergo more is done by truck.
        gaadd33 2y ago
        Although under the law that created Amtrak, the track owners are supposed to give priority to passenger trains. I don't think that's been enforced for 30+ years (maybe ever) so freight is prioritized since it makes the owners more money.
  - Izikiel43 2y ago
    The question is, where? Most of the midwest is empty, same with other states. You have very dense areas in the east coast, which already leverage a large train network. In the west coast, Oregon and WA already have trains connecting their largest cities (Portland/Seattle/Vancouver). California has caltrain, and internal city trains. In the USA, for passengers, it makes much more sense to fly than trains, the infrastructure costs and time costs of trains vs planes don't make sense.
    - ocschwar 2y ago
      I'll put it this way: if it were easy and efficient to take a train from Chicago to Bloomington, Dubuque, Rockford, Ft. Wayne, every one of these places would make the effort to make it worthwhile to ride that train. Instead we just accept that all these places are effectively served by Chicago's OHare Airport, and there's no reason to travel among these places.
    - undersuit 2y ago
      The density is a function of our travel system. Putting dedicated passenger train routes into the US to connect the biggest cities would lead to the smaller cities along the routes receiving increased immigration. Every city has a road through it to do the same thing. >In the USA, for passengers, it makes much more sense to fly than trains You don't live in the midwest I take it. It makes more sense to drive than to take a flight that passes you through one of the airline hubs for most every trip that is less than 400 miles.
      - bongodongobob 2y ago
        So, most trips.
    - itishappy 2y ago
      "We have rail at home" Rail at home: > Boston to Buffalo: 11h32m
    - jcranmer 2y ago
      > Most of the midwest is empty, same with other states. Most of the Midwest has the same functional density as Europe. Indeed, if you overlay a map of France on the Midwest, with Paris centered on Chicago, you'll find that there are cities of comparable sizes at comparable distances. The Great Empty largely exists only on the plains and the mountainous west, where all but the most ardent fantasists concede that no passenger system is viable. But most of the population in the US lives in or near a city that would have viable high-speed rail destinations!
  - miki123211 2y ago
    >common in Europe European rail travel is mostly small-town-to-city (for commuting) and city-to-city, mostly when the cities aren't that far apart (a few hours at most). International travel in Europe is much less common than interstate travel in the US, mostly because of the language and culture barriers, so most trips people take are in the same country. Our countries are far smaller, and the major cities of each country are far close to each other than the major cities in the US, so trains make sense. Trains in Europe mostly replace cars, NOT planes. It's just that a lot more travel here can be done by car/train in a reasonable time. To an average European, SFO to LAX by train would be just about bearable, depending on country and train speed. Anything much farther than that would probably be a flight.
    - fy20 2y ago
      A bit more context: Very few people in Europe travel internationally by train. If you need to go fast you go by air, or if you need to go cheap you go by bus. Train travel works well within some countries (a decade ago, I took a train from Rome to Venice and back for a 1 day conference - driving would have been around 6 hours each way), but for international travel it's usually not worth it. You are also dealing with different ticketing and scheduling systems, not to mention theres a bunch of big mountains in the middle of Europe meaning it's geographically hard to cross.
      - leoedin 2y ago
        I live in London and work for a French company. I’m travelling to Brussels and Paris fairly regularly. Many of my colleagues do the same. It’s a 2 hour high speed train. Far better than flying. Europe is a large place, but my experience in Western Europe is that people absolutely travel by inter-city train between countries when the journey time is 3 hours. More than that and flying starts to be favoured. Driving isn’t really an option for these journeys because the trains are so much faster than cars. A 2 hour train journey would take 4+ hours by car.
        nmeofthestate 2y ago
        A similar distance to NY-to-DC (which would be half an hour slower on the train according to Google).
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
JeremyBarbosa 2y ago
>The City was among America’s premier trains, a luxury streamliner that could hit 110 miles per hour while white-jacketed waiters balanced trays of cocktails I wonder how passengers back then would have imagined rail travel today, 75 years later (aside from the life-threatening storms, of course). The Overland Route is now freight-only, and the closest equivalent, the California Zephyr, takes about 52 hours to make the journey this train did in just 40! More on topic, I was surprised to read: > When the steam generators’ water tanks ran dry, heat disappeared, too. Weren't there surrounded by frozen water? Is there any reason snow couldn't be used in an emergency to heat the train?
- colonelspace 2y ago
  A few reasons that occur to me: 1. The volume of snow to be collected would have been significantly greater than the resulting water. 2. Heating snow at elevation requires more energy. 3. Perhaps getting snow into the steam generator wasn't so easy.
  - glaucon 2y ago
    > The volume of snow to be collected would have been significantly greater than the resulting water. Yes, dependent on the nature of the snow but a broad idea is that if you want a litre of water, you need five litres of snow.
    - SketchySeaBeast 2y ago
      The stat I've seen is even worse at 10:1.
      - xarope 2y ago
        anecdotally I think I've had to scoop about 30l of snow in a stuff sack, to get about 2-3l of melted water (of which I've probably added at least a cup or 2 of water to get started - to prevent the bottom of the pot being scorched by heat before the snow melts), so that sounds about right.
jmspring 2y ago
These days, UP has the rotary snow engine they use to clear things up towards Donner. For the most part it’s usually parked in Roseville (I believe). A neat video - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iSe1izplce0 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iSe1izplce0
- caseyohara 2y ago
  What an awesome machine. The shot at 10m27s is very cool: https://youtu.be/iSe1izplce0?t=10m27s https://youtu.be/iSe1izplce0?t=10m27s
- shawn_w 2y ago
  The ones SP had back then couldn't get through the snow. Article says they had 4 of the things trying to clear the tracks.
  - jmspring 2y ago
    The current one is sometimes in Portola, CA, old rail town trying to survive. Usually during their railway days (they have a rail museum). It’s a sight.
TMWNN 2y ago
Among the rescuers was "Dennis Whiles", actually George Gärtner, <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Gaertner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Gaertner> the last German prisoner of war in the United States.
- mindcrime 2y ago
  Fascinating story. Somebody should probably submit that as a top-level HN entry.
dmwilcox 2y ago
Wow! I never gave it much thought that a train could get stuck in Donner pass. I grew up in the area and the snow can really come down. Warning, if you wait until snow is sticking in Reno then you might not make it through. I've had several near escapes through the pass. Following the semi's in their treads saved me in a little 2WD car.
CaliforniaKarl 2y ago
> On Wednesday night, after warming up at the ski lodge’s fireplaces, the bedraggled passengers boarded a special train that included eight Pullman sleepers and two dining cars. No streamliner equipment awaited the travelers this time: These cars were riveted steel battlewagons from the 1920s. They were heavy, quiet and toasty. The Southern Pacific had retired these cars, regarding them as worn and ungainly—but they showed their value on this night.
CaliforniaKarl 2y ago
For folks who are interested, may I suggest checking out _The White Cascade_, a story of a train in the Pacific Northwest first getting stuck, and then being struck by an avalanche. Publisher's page: https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780805083293/thewhitecascade/ https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780805083293/thewhitecascade... WorldCat page: https://search.worldcat.org/title/150384796?oclcNum=150384796 https://search.worldcat.org/title/150384796?oclcNum=15038479...
FrustratedMonky 2y ago
Just by the title. Please let it be a Lord of the Fly's situation where the Rich eat each other.
bookofjoe 2y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42669749 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42669749
karaterobot 2y ago
> “In the 1950s, you had this mid-century hubris—technology could conquer all,” says Ty Smith, director of the California State Railroad Museum. “Part of the reason this episode happened was this unyielding optimism that we could solve every problem. In the face of a blizzard in the Sierra, that just wasn’t true.” My takeaway was the opposite. A hundred years before this, a different group was stuck in the same pass, and couldn't get help for 4 months. This situation resolved in 3 days, and there was no cannibalism. When something similar happened to an Amtrak in 2019, it only took a day and a half, and people still had access to Twitter the entire time. Not to diminish the suffering, etc., etc., but it seems like there's cause for optimism when it comes to technological progress.
- DiscourseFan 2y ago
  Reading the Wikipedia article on the Donner party[0], it seems like what happened was less so an unfortunate accident and more so the norm for human survival in more perilous environments, which we generally aren't exposed to anymore. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donner_Party# https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donner_Party#
  - dmbche 2y ago
    Unfortunate accident because they were not supposed to be at the pass, there were well travelled safe routes to California, but the party were told of a "shortcut" that was untravelled and dangerous. They got stranded far from civilisation, with no chance of having someone stumble on them or know to send help. Shouldn't have happened and they got help from some indigenous people that have been surviving there for quite a bit, I reckon - which tells me that people could survive then in those conditions.
    - rob74 2y ago
      Nitpick: when the Donner Party got snowed in, they were already back on a well travelled route, their problem was just that taking the supposed "shortcut" (the "Hastings cutoff" - map: https://www.historynet.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/donner-party-map-3.jpg https://www.historynet.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/donner...) delayed them so much that they weren't able to pass the Sierra Nevada while the weather still allowed it. The reason no one stumbled upon them was that no one was foolish enough to attempt crossing the mountains at that time of the year anymore (and, if they had attempted it, they would have ended up in the same situation as the Donner Party).
beau_g 2y ago
They should rename the pass Train Trapped in Snow Pass to serve as a cautionary reminder for anyone traversing that pass in the winter
- AnimalMuppet 2y ago
  The location is in fact called "Streamliner Curve" to this day. (I don't know if that's an official name, though...)
- ghewgill 2y ago
  There's a pass on the Inca Trail in Peru called "Dead Woman's Pass" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warmi_Wa%C3%B1usqa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warmi_Wa%C3%B1usqa). I have to assume this is a similar warning.
  - martinpw 2y ago
    I seem to remember a guide stating that this pass has that name because there are two equal sized hills near it and so, umm, it has the profile of a woman lying down on her back, rather than implying that a woman actually died there.
    - ghewgill 2y ago
      That also seems like a reasonable explanation. I never got any of the background story from our guides.
lchengify 2y ago
So I've driven Route 50 between Tahoe and Placerville a few times. Many of these times the weather has been quite bad. Many of these times I've had to wait for hours while an accident was cleared, or 12 foot snow drifts were plowed. When I'm traveling in mountain snow, I'm always very neurotic about prep. AWD or 4x4, water, chains, food, emergency kits, etc ... I always assume I could be stuck for 24 hours or more. In the meantime, I am constantly shocked by how many people make this trek with little or no respect for how deadly snow can be. The worst of it is when it puts others in danger: I'll never forget seeing a front-wheel drive sedan repeatedly driving up, then slipping back on a steep hill, while a line of 20 cars waited behind it. Part of it is just not knowing (I grew up in the east coast), but part of it is just human nature to not understand some things to be inherently dangerous. Snow and cold looks so serene, but cold in it's various forms has killed many more people than heat.
- Johnny555 2y ago
  >Many of these times the weather has been quite bad...In the meantime, I am constantly shocked by how many people make this trek with little or no respect for how deadly snow can be I'm amazed at how many people make this trek during a snowstorm. I get that some people have family, work or other obligations and have a strong reason to make the trip, but most are just going up to ski.
  - stickfigure 2y ago
    I've driven both the 50 and 80 dozens of times in snowstorms. Yes, usually to ski (or come home from said activity). It's just not that deadly. Literally, people don't die in snowstorms on the 50 or 80. I can't find record of any weather related automobile deaths. I'm sure it must have happened, but not in recent history. Certainly travel in these conditions is not without risks, but I'm pretty sure the bigger risk for the day is on the slope. People get carried off in stretchers every day from every resort. Which is not to say that everyone should do it - be equipped, have snow driving skills, and be prepared for the worst (stuck for many hours, which can happen). But don't overstate the risks or be so priggish (new word of the day) about the people who take them.
nntwozz 2y ago
This would make an excellent movie, something like Titanic showing the luxury onboard and then the deterioration of the situation albeit not as dramatic. Two rescuers died while attempting to reach the stranded passengers. https://youtu.be/hYa51nRB344 https://youtu.be/hYa51nRB344
- interludead 2y ago
  Which director would you trust to take on such a project?
  - nntwozz 2y ago
    David Lynch
stickfigure 2y ago
Anyone know where this happened? The article says "near Yuba pass" but Yuba Pass is on the 49, far north of Donner Pass and not on the RR line. It also mentions the rescue train from Reno got stuck at Soda Springs, which _is_ on the RR line and west of Donner Pass. EDIT: Seems to be more detail (and better pictures) here: http://cprr.org/Museum/Stranded_Streamliner_1952/index.html http://cprr.org/Museum/Stranded_Streamliner_1952/index.html (tiny link from the article, easy to miss)
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- brian_spiering 2y ago
  There is the nearby Yuba Gap.
  - stickfigure 2y ago
    Thanks, that must be it. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Yuba+Gap/@39.2821017,-120.7263737 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Yuba+Gap/@39.2821017,-120....
psyclobe 2y ago
Unreadable what with all the web advertisements
- interludead 2y ago
  Prioritizing user experience over ad revenue is not the way unfortunately
divbzero 2y ago
I was half expecting the outcome to be worse than it turned out. Two died while helping with the rescue, but all of the passenger and crew on the train survived.
interludead 2y ago
Sometimes I am frightened by the fact that even now we are (sometimes) powerless against nature
ThinkBeat 2y ago
I know little about locomotives. It is a diesel engine in a "steam engine" locomotive? The diesel heats the water instead of "wood/coal"?
ThinkBeat 2y ago
I do not understand how the engine ran out of water. They are surrounded and trapped by water. Could they not shove snow into whatever reservoir that required it? Preferably well before the water runs out. If they had enough diesel to keep it going.

146 points by pseudolus 2y ago

>If a debacle on this scale is surprising today... I used to think of American passenger train travel as this romantic affair until being similarly stranded in an Amtrak the Cascade's for 24 hours with no cell or heat back in 2019 (thankfully no carbon monoxide poisoning either.)[1] Now I say leave the rails to freight. 500tmpg is a pretty good multiple over sending things via truck and about 14x more efficient than sending the same weight in passengers. Despite common ignorance, our freight rail is the best in the world. [1] https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/2019/02/amtrak-train-stranded-near-eugene-since-sunday-after-hitting-tree-on-tracks.html https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/2019/02/am...

colonelspace 2y ago
If I could travel by train domestically in the USA as is common in Europe, I would prefer it. It's a real shame that the USA has yet to develop decent passenger trains.
- cheeze 2y ago
  Seriously. EU rail is great! Show up 15 minutes before my train leaves, sit on my phone (albeit often without reception) and pass the time sitting at a comfy table. I took a first class trip in Italy recently. Food was fine and it's Italy, but those seats were very comfortable!
- vkou 2y ago
  Likewise, it's a real shame that Europe has yet to develop cheap cargo trains. Perhaps both regions should look into doubling their rail networks.
  - gambiting 2y ago
    Where in Europe doesn't have cheap cargo trains? I used to live next to a train line in Poland and the cargo trains never stop going, there's so much cargo being moved by rail that the lines are almost always at capacity.
    - TMWNN 2y ago
      vkou is correct. The US freight rail system is the best and cheapest in the world, and has a larger share of freight shipping than in other countries. <https://archive.is/20240502094047/https://www.economist.com/briefing/2010/07/22/high-speed-railroading https://archive.is/20240502094047/https://www.economist.com/...>
    - vkou 2y ago
      Measured in mile-tonnes, ~40% of US cargo travels by rail. Meanwhile, only ~20% of EU cargo travels by rail. The US prioritizes freight on its rail network, the EU prioritizes passenger service.
      - PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
        This is disingenous. There is no "rail network" about which the US (through some political process) makes decisions about prioritization. There is a freight rail network, and there is Amtrak's rails between Boston and DC. That's it. We're not prioritizing freight, the network is owned by freight companies. Also, with regards to percentages, this is the wrong comparison. The numbers you need (which I could not find) are what percentage of cargo travels to within Nkm of its destination by trail in the USA, where N is the typical value for Europe. We have substantial freight hauling in the US because of long distance journeys. The last Nkm is generally done by truck. In Europe, there is much less long distance freight hauling, and much more hauling that takes place under the Nkm "limit", ergo more is done by truck.
        gaadd33 2y ago
        Although under the law that created Amtrak, the track owners are supposed to give priority to passenger trains. I don't think that's been enforced for 30+ years (maybe ever) so freight is prioritized since it makes the owners more money.
- Izikiel43 2y ago
  The question is, where? Most of the midwest is empty, same with other states. You have very dense areas in the east coast, which already leverage a large train network. In the west coast, Oregon and WA already have trains connecting their largest cities (Portland/Seattle/Vancouver). California has caltrain, and internal city trains. In the USA, for passengers, it makes much more sense to fly than trains, the infrastructure costs and time costs of trains vs planes don't make sense.
  - ocschwar 2y ago
    I'll put it this way: if it were easy and efficient to take a train from Chicago to Bloomington, Dubuque, Rockford, Ft. Wayne, every one of these places would make the effort to make it worthwhile to ride that train. Instead we just accept that all these places are effectively served by Chicago's OHare Airport, and there's no reason to travel among these places.
  - undersuit 2y ago
    The density is a function of our travel system. Putting dedicated passenger train routes into the US to connect the biggest cities would lead to the smaller cities along the routes receiving increased immigration. Every city has a road through it to do the same thing. >In the USA, for passengers, it makes much more sense to fly than trains You don't live in the midwest I take it. It makes more sense to drive than to take a flight that passes you through one of the airline hubs for most every trip that is less than 400 miles.
    - bongodongobob 2y ago
      So, most trips.
  - itishappy 2y ago
    "We have rail at home" Rail at home: > Boston to Buffalo: 11h32m
  - jcranmer 2y ago
    > Most of the midwest is empty, same with other states. Most of the Midwest has the same functional density as Europe. Indeed, if you overlay a map of France on the Midwest, with Paris centered on Chicago, you'll find that there are cities of comparable sizes at comparable distances. The Great Empty largely exists only on the plains and the mountainous west, where all but the most ardent fantasists concede that no passenger system is viable. But most of the population in the US lives in or near a city that would have viable high-speed rail destinations!
- miki123211 2y ago
  >common in Europe European rail travel is mostly small-town-to-city (for commuting) and city-to-city, mostly when the cities aren't that far apart (a few hours at most). International travel in Europe is much less common than interstate travel in the US, mostly because of the language and culture barriers, so most trips people take are in the same country. Our countries are far smaller, and the major cities of each country are far close to each other than the major cities in the US, so trains make sense. Trains in Europe mostly replace cars, NOT planes. It's just that a lot more travel here can be done by car/train in a reasonable time. To an average European, SFO to LAX by train would be just about bearable, depending on country and train speed. Anything much farther than that would probably be a flight.
  - fy20 2y ago
    A bit more context: Very few people in Europe travel internationally by train. If you need to go fast you go by air, or if you need to go cheap you go by bus. Train travel works well within some countries (a decade ago, I took a train from Rome to Venice and back for a 1 day conference - driving would have been around 6 hours each way), but for international travel it's usually not worth it. You are also dealing with different ticketing and scheduling systems, not to mention theres a bunch of big mountains in the middle of Europe meaning it's geographically hard to cross.
    - leoedin 2y ago
      I live in London and work for a French company. I’m travelling to Brussels and Paris fairly regularly. Many of my colleagues do the same. It’s a 2 hour high speed train. Far better than flying. Europe is a large place, but my experience in Western Europe is that people absolutely travel by inter-city train between countries when the journey time is 3 hours. More than that and flying starts to be favoured. Driving isn’t really an option for these journeys because the trains are so much faster than cars. A 2 hour train journey would take 4+ hours by car.
      - nmeofthestate 2y ago
        A similar distance to NY-to-DC (which would be half an hour slower on the train according to Google).
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

JeremyBarbosa 2y ago

>The City was among America’s premier trains, a luxury streamliner that could hit 110 miles per hour while white-jacketed waiters balanced trays of cocktails I wonder how passengers back then would have imagined rail travel today, 75 years later (aside from the life-threatening storms, of course). The Overland Route is now freight-only, and the closest equivalent, the California Zephyr, takes about 52 hours to make the journey this train did in just 40! More on topic, I was surprised to read: > When the steam generators’ water tanks ran dry, heat disappeared, too. Weren't there surrounded by frozen water? Is there any reason snow couldn't be used in an emergency to heat the train?

colonelspace 2y ago
A few reasons that occur to me: 1. The volume of snow to be collected would have been significantly greater than the resulting water. 2. Heating snow at elevation requires more energy. 3. Perhaps getting snow into the steam generator wasn't so easy.
- glaucon 2y ago
  > The volume of snow to be collected would have been significantly greater than the resulting water. Yes, dependent on the nature of the snow but a broad idea is that if you want a litre of water, you need five litres of snow.
  - SketchySeaBeast 2y ago
    The stat I've seen is even worse at 10:1.
    - xarope 2y ago
      anecdotally I think I've had to scoop about 30l of snow in a stuff sack, to get about 2-3l of melted water (of which I've probably added at least a cup or 2 of water to get started - to prevent the bottom of the pot being scorched by heat before the snow melts), so that sounds about right.

jmspring 2y ago

These days, UP has the rotary snow engine they use to clear things up towards Donner. For the most part it’s usually parked in Roseville (I believe). A neat video - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iSe1izplce0 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iSe1izplce0

caseyohara 2y ago
What an awesome machine. The shot at 10m27s is very cool: https://youtu.be/iSe1izplce0?t=10m27s https://youtu.be/iSe1izplce0?t=10m27s
shawn_w 2y ago
The ones SP had back then couldn't get through the snow. Article says they had 4 of the things trying to clear the tracks.
- jmspring 2y ago
  The current one is sometimes in Portola, CA, old rail town trying to survive. Usually during their railway days (they have a rail museum). It’s a sight.

TMWNN 2y ago

Among the rescuers was "Dennis Whiles", actually George Gärtner, <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Gaertner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Gaertner> the last German prisoner of war in the United States.

mindcrime 2y ago
Fascinating story. Somebody should probably submit that as a top-level HN entry.

dmwilcox 2y ago

Wow! I never gave it much thought that a train could get stuck in Donner pass. I grew up in the area and the snow can really come down. Warning, if you wait until snow is sticking in Reno then you might not make it through. I've had several near escapes through the pass. Following the semi's in their treads saved me in a little 2WD car.

CaliforniaKarl 2y ago

> On Wednesday night, after warming up at the ski lodge’s fireplaces, the bedraggled passengers boarded a special train that included eight Pullman sleepers and two dining cars. No streamliner equipment awaited the travelers this time: These cars were riveted steel battlewagons from the 1920s. They were heavy, quiet and toasty. The Southern Pacific had retired these cars, regarding them as worn and ungainly—but they showed their value on this night.

CaliforniaKarl 2y ago

For folks who are interested, may I suggest checking out _The White Cascade_, a story of a train in the Pacific Northwest first getting stuck, and then being struck by an avalanche. Publisher's page: https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780805083293/thewhitecascade/ https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780805083293/thewhitecascade... WorldCat page: https://search.worldcat.org/title/150384796?oclcNum=150384796 https://search.worldcat.org/title/150384796?oclcNum=15038479...

FrustratedMonky 2y ago

Just by the title. Please let it be a Lord of the Fly's situation where the Rich eat each other.

bookofjoe 2y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42669749 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42669749

karaterobot 2y ago

> “In the 1950s, you had this mid-century hubris—technology could conquer all,” says Ty Smith, director of the California State Railroad Museum. “Part of the reason this episode happened was this unyielding optimism that we could solve every problem. In the face of a blizzard in the Sierra, that just wasn’t true.” My takeaway was the opposite. A hundred years before this, a different group was stuck in the same pass, and couldn't get help for 4 months. This situation resolved in 3 days, and there was no cannibalism. When something similar happened to an Amtrak in 2019, it only took a day and a half, and people still had access to Twitter the entire time. Not to diminish the suffering, etc., etc., but it seems like there's cause for optimism when it comes to technological progress.

DiscourseFan 2y ago
Reading the Wikipedia article on the Donner party[0], it seems like what happened was less so an unfortunate accident and more so the norm for human survival in more perilous environments, which we generally aren't exposed to anymore. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donner_Party# https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donner_Party#
- dmbche 2y ago
  Unfortunate accident because they were not supposed to be at the pass, there were well travelled safe routes to California, but the party were told of a "shortcut" that was untravelled and dangerous. They got stranded far from civilisation, with no chance of having someone stumble on them or know to send help. Shouldn't have happened and they got help from some indigenous people that have been surviving there for quite a bit, I reckon - which tells me that people could survive then in those conditions.
  - rob74 2y ago
    Nitpick: when the Donner Party got snowed in, they were already back on a well travelled route, their problem was just that taking the supposed "shortcut" (the "Hastings cutoff" - map: https://www.historynet.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/donner-party-map-3.jpg https://www.historynet.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/donner...) delayed them so much that they weren't able to pass the Sierra Nevada while the weather still allowed it. The reason no one stumbled upon them was that no one was foolish enough to attempt crossing the mountains at that time of the year anymore (and, if they had attempted it, they would have ended up in the same situation as the Donner Party).

beau_g 2y ago

They should rename the pass Train Trapped in Snow Pass to serve as a cautionary reminder for anyone traversing that pass in the winter

AnimalMuppet 2y ago
The location is in fact called "Streamliner Curve" to this day. (I don't know if that's an official name, though...)
ghewgill 2y ago
There's a pass on the Inca Trail in Peru called "Dead Woman's Pass" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warmi_Wa%C3%B1usqa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warmi_Wa%C3%B1usqa). I have to assume this is a similar warning.
- martinpw 2y ago
  I seem to remember a guide stating that this pass has that name because there are two equal sized hills near it and so, umm, it has the profile of a woman lying down on her back, rather than implying that a woman actually died there.
  - ghewgill 2y ago
    That also seems like a reasonable explanation. I never got any of the background story from our guides.

lchengify 2y ago

So I've driven Route 50 between Tahoe and Placerville a few times. Many of these times the weather has been quite bad. Many of these times I've had to wait for hours while an accident was cleared, or 12 foot snow drifts were plowed. When I'm traveling in mountain snow, I'm always very neurotic about prep. AWD or 4x4, water, chains, food, emergency kits, etc ... I always assume I could be stuck for 24 hours or more. In the meantime, I am constantly shocked by how many people make this trek with little or no respect for how deadly snow can be. The worst of it is when it puts others in danger: I'll never forget seeing a front-wheel drive sedan repeatedly driving up, then slipping back on a steep hill, while a line of 20 cars waited behind it. Part of it is just not knowing (I grew up in the east coast), but part of it is just human nature to not understand some things to be inherently dangerous. Snow and cold looks so serene, but cold in it's various forms has killed many more people than heat.

Johnny555 2y ago
>Many of these times the weather has been quite bad...In the meantime, I am constantly shocked by how many people make this trek with little or no respect for how deadly snow can be I'm amazed at how many people make this trek during a snowstorm. I get that some people have family, work or other obligations and have a strong reason to make the trip, but most are just going up to ski.
- stickfigure 2y ago
  I've driven both the 50 and 80 dozens of times in snowstorms. Yes, usually to ski (or come home from said activity). It's just not that deadly. Literally, people don't die in snowstorms on the 50 or 80. I can't find record of any weather related automobile deaths. I'm sure it must have happened, but not in recent history. Certainly travel in these conditions is not without risks, but I'm pretty sure the bigger risk for the day is on the slope. People get carried off in stretchers every day from every resort. Which is not to say that everyone should do it - be equipped, have snow driving skills, and be prepared for the worst (stuck for many hours, which can happen). But don't overstate the risks or be so priggish (new word of the day) about the people who take them.

nntwozz 2y ago

This would make an excellent movie, something like Titanic showing the luxury onboard and then the deterioration of the situation albeit not as dramatic. Two rescuers died while attempting to reach the stranded passengers. https://youtu.be/hYa51nRB344 https://youtu.be/hYa51nRB344

interludead 2y ago
Which director would you trust to take on such a project?
- nntwozz 2y ago
  David Lynch

stickfigure 2y ago

Anyone know where this happened? The article says "near Yuba pass" but Yuba Pass is on the 49, far north of Donner Pass and not on the RR line. It also mentions the rescue train from Reno got stuck at Soda Springs, which _is_ on the RR line and west of Donner Pass. EDIT: Seems to be more detail (and better pictures) here: http://cprr.org/Museum/Stranded_Streamliner_1952/index.html http://cprr.org/Museum/Stranded_Streamliner_1952/index.html (tiny link from the article, easy to miss)

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
brian_spiering 2y ago
There is the nearby Yuba Gap.
- stickfigure 2y ago
  Thanks, that must be it. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Yuba+Gap/@39.2821017,-120.7263737 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Yuba+Gap/@39.2821017,-120....

psyclobe 2y ago

Unreadable what with all the web advertisements

interludead 2y ago
Prioritizing user experience over ad revenue is not the way unfortunately

divbzero 2y ago

I was half expecting the outcome to be worse than it turned out. Two died while helping with the rescue, but all of the passenger and crew on the train survived.

interludead 2y ago

Sometimes I am frightened by the fact that even now we are (sometimes) powerless against nature

ThinkBeat 2y ago

I know little about locomotives. It is a diesel engine in a "steam engine" locomotive? The diesel heats the water instead of "wood/coal"?

ThinkBeat 2y ago

I do not understand how the engine ran out of water. They are surrounded and trapped by water. Could they not shove snow into whatever reservoir that required it? Preferably well before the water runs out. If they had enough diesel to keep it going.