4 ms·

Back in the 17th century a bunch of hardline Protestants in the Netherlands got upset that Catholics and Jews were allowed to practice their religion. The rich

Back in the 17th century a bunch of hardline Protestants in the Netherlands got upset that Catholics and Jews were allowed to practice their religion. The rich people who ran Amsterdam explained that after death god would sort them all out so they didn't have to. I always admired their practicality.

amenhotep 2y ago
Of course, Arnaud Amalric said the same thing to rather different effect.
_fat_santa 2y ago
Semi related but one thing that I've always found fascinating was the peace lines[1] in Belfast and other parts of Northern Ireland. You often hear about religious conflicts in the history books but it's wild to see remnants of that in the modern world. I live in the US and for us the concept of two Christian factions being in conflict is just so foreign. You drive around just about anywhere in the US and you will come across Protestant churches right next to Catholic ones. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_lines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_lines
- jimkleiber 2y ago
  Fascinating. I didn't know these existed and find the naming to intrigue me the most. I've been saying lately that the resolution of conflict is not peace, the resolution of conflict is love. It seems putting walls up is a way to avoid conflict, or try to avoid it, but I wonder if the conflict just festers, and the actual resolution would be unity. Except the challenge can be it just takes a few people in a group to say "if you love them, you don't love us" and thus we run away into our corners, pretending that we don't love everyone.
- BJones12 2y ago
  Religious conflicts, including big name ones, have always been political conflicts between groups that happen to have different religions. These days there is still political conflict, but there's less contrast between each side's religious makeup. Therefore the conflict won't appear to be a religious conflict.
- graemep 2y ago
  I think it is misleading to categorise the conflict in Northern Ireland as religious. There are two different ethnic/national identity groups that happen to be predominantly of different Christian denominations. However, there are atheists and protestants ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Irish_nationalists#During_the_Troubles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Irish_nationalists#... ) in the "catholic" IRA, and the IRA killed British soldiers regardless of religion (and there are lots of Catholics in the British army) etc. and British Catholics were not often sympathetic to the IRA (nor Catholics from the rest of the world) and we were just as likely to get bombed by them as anyone else in Britain. A book I have on Irish history quotes a study that found that the more often Catholics in the Republic went to church the less likely they were to support Sinn Fein (the political party linked to the IRA).
- idiotsecant 2y ago
  Maybe, but the US hasn't been around long enough to get the really gnarly sectarian feuds going I suppose. Give it time. If there's one thing humans are good at its breaking social structures in favor of petty tribalism.
  - Muromec 2y ago
    Doesn't even have to be sectarian -- we are witnessing US/Europe schism happening right now and it can cut very deep.
- stonesthrowaway 2y ago
  > I live in the US and for us the concept of two Christian factions being in conflict is just so foreign. Foreign? Christian factionalism is deeply ingrained in american culture. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Catholicism_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Catholicism_in_the_United... Mostly directed towards catholics and mormons. > You drive around just about anywhere in the US and you will come across Protestant churches right next to Catholic ones. Anywhere? No. Most catholic churches are in catholic areas and protestant churches in protestant areas. And I'm pretty sure most protestant churches official stance is that the catholic pope is the anti-christ. At least it was when I went to church not too long ago. Not sure what the catholic stance is nor do I really care. Also, these "religious" conflicts are deep down ethnic or political conflicts. We don't have religious factionalism because our politics is pretty much controlled by one political party (republican-democratic party). Once that political stranglehold gets broken, we'll probably ethnic and religious factionalism.

amenhotep 2y ago

Of course, Arnaud Amalric said the same thing to rather different effect.

_fat_santa 2y ago

Semi related but one thing that I've always found fascinating was the peace lines[1] in Belfast and other parts of Northern Ireland. You often hear about religious conflicts in the history books but it's wild to see remnants of that in the modern world. I live in the US and for us the concept of two Christian factions being in conflict is just so foreign. You drive around just about anywhere in the US and you will come across Protestant churches right next to Catholic ones. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_lines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_lines

jimkleiber 2y ago
Fascinating. I didn't know these existed and find the naming to intrigue me the most. I've been saying lately that the resolution of conflict is not peace, the resolution of conflict is love. It seems putting walls up is a way to avoid conflict, or try to avoid it, but I wonder if the conflict just festers, and the actual resolution would be unity. Except the challenge can be it just takes a few people in a group to say "if you love them, you don't love us" and thus we run away into our corners, pretending that we don't love everyone.
BJones12 2y ago
Religious conflicts, including big name ones, have always been political conflicts between groups that happen to have different religions. These days there is still political conflict, but there's less contrast between each side's religious makeup. Therefore the conflict won't appear to be a religious conflict.
graemep 2y ago
I think it is misleading to categorise the conflict in Northern Ireland as religious. There are two different ethnic/national identity groups that happen to be predominantly of different Christian denominations. However, there are atheists and protestants ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Irish_nationalists#During_the_Troubles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Irish_nationalists#... ) in the "catholic" IRA, and the IRA killed British soldiers regardless of religion (and there are lots of Catholics in the British army) etc. and British Catholics were not often sympathetic to the IRA (nor Catholics from the rest of the world) and we were just as likely to get bombed by them as anyone else in Britain. A book I have on Irish history quotes a study that found that the more often Catholics in the Republic went to church the less likely they were to support Sinn Fein (the political party linked to the IRA).
idiotsecant 2y ago
Maybe, but the US hasn't been around long enough to get the really gnarly sectarian feuds going I suppose. Give it time. If there's one thing humans are good at its breaking social structures in favor of petty tribalism.
- Muromec 2y ago
  Doesn't even have to be sectarian -- we are witnessing US/Europe schism happening right now and it can cut very deep.
stonesthrowaway 2y ago
> I live in the US and for us the concept of two Christian factions being in conflict is just so foreign. Foreign? Christian factionalism is deeply ingrained in american culture. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Catholicism_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Catholicism_in_the_United... Mostly directed towards catholics and mormons. > You drive around just about anywhere in the US and you will come across Protestant churches right next to Catholic ones. Anywhere? No. Most catholic churches are in catholic areas and protestant churches in protestant areas. And I'm pretty sure most protestant churches official stance is that the catholic pope is the anti-christ. At least it was when I went to church not too long ago. Not sure what the catholic stance is nor do I really care. Also, these "religious" conflicts are deep down ethnic or political conflicts. We don't have religious factionalism because our politics is pretty much controlled by one political party (republican-democratic party). Once that political stranglehold gets broken, we'll probably ethnic and religious factionalism.