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They are talking about the following, not ‘top’ surgery for trans men/boys: https://www.plasticsurgery.org/news/press-releases/male-breast-reduction-surgery-im

by foldr 2y ago

They are talking about the following, not ‘top’ surgery for trans men/boys: https://www.plasticsurgery.org/news/press-releases/male-breast-reduction-surgery-improves-quality-of-life-for-teens-even-with-complications https://www.plasticsurgery.org/news/press-releases/male-brea... While the page is obviously not unbiased about the benefits of this surgery, you can infer from the number of patients included in just one study that it’s very common. Yet this particular irreversible surgery performed on children does not seem to be causing a moral panic. The broader point, which I think you’ve not picked up on, is that most people are fine with gender affirming care for children as long as the children are cis - which is arguably a double standard.

zahlman 2y ago
>you can infer from the number of patients included in just one study that it’s very common No, I don't think I can infer any such thing. The original claim was that "everything else is completely and totally marginal by comparison in the US." The Reuters article cites hundreds of mastectomies on trans-male-identifying patients per year. The existence of a study on 145 mastectomies on cis-male-identifying patients does not establish the claim. >The broader point, which I think you’ve not picked up on, is that most people are fine with gender affirming care for children as long as the children are cis - which is arguably a double standard. I understand exactly what the point was. I just didn't think it was established. Absent a baseline statistic, the Reuters article suggested a different conclusion. Claims phrased with language like "completely and totally marginal by comparison" should be evidenced. The way to do that would have been with a citation, such as from Wikipedia: > According to the American Society of Plastic Surgeons, breast reduction surgeries to correct gynecomastia are fairly common but has been a recent decline. In 2020, there were over 18,000 procedures of this type performed in the United States which is down 11% compared to in 2019. But for those who object to such surgeries on trans-identifying minors, I doubt that they would characterize such a surgery in a cis individual as "gender affirming care" anyway.
- foldr 2y ago
  Thanks for digging up the statistic, but seems to confirm that bsder was correct about the relative numbers. >I doubt that they would characterize such a surgery in a cis individual as "gender affirming care" anyway. Right, but they don't characterize it that way purely because the individual is cis. The typical reason for these surgeries is that many boys and men feel uncomfortable having large breasts (even though this is not particularly abnormal in biological terms or a dangerous medical condition). So it is 'gender affirming care' in a pretty literal sense. The person feels that their body conflicts with their gender identity, and the surgery removes or lessens the discrepancy.

by foldr 2y ago

zahlman 2y ago

>you can infer from the number of patients included in just one study that it’s very common No, I don't think I can infer any such thing. The original claim was that "everything else is completely and totally marginal by comparison in the US." The Reuters article cites hundreds of mastectomies on trans-male-identifying patients per year. The existence of a study on 145 mastectomies on cis-male-identifying patients does not establish the claim. >The broader point, which I think you’ve not picked up on, is that most people are fine with gender affirming care for children as long as the children are cis - which is arguably a double standard. I understand exactly what the point was. I just didn't think it was established. Absent a baseline statistic, the Reuters article suggested a different conclusion. Claims phrased with language like "completely and totally marginal by comparison" should be evidenced. The way to do that would have been with a citation, such as from Wikipedia: > According to the American Society of Plastic Surgeons, breast reduction surgeries to correct gynecomastia are fairly common but has been a recent decline. In 2020, there were over 18,000 procedures of this type performed in the United States which is down 11% compared to in 2019. But for those who object to such surgeries on trans-identifying minors, I doubt that they would characterize such a surgery in a cis individual as "gender affirming care" anyway.

foldr 2y ago
Thanks for digging up the statistic, but seems to confirm that bsder was correct about the relative numbers. >I doubt that they would characterize such a surgery in a cis individual as "gender affirming care" anyway. Right, but they don't characterize it that way purely because the individual is cis. The typical reason for these surgeries is that many boys and men feel uncomfortable having large breasts (even though this is not particularly abnormal in biological terms or a dangerous medical condition). So it is 'gender affirming care' in a pretty literal sense. The person feels that their body conflicts with their gender identity, and the surgery removes or lessens the discrepancy.