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First, when you write "engineering", I suppose that you mean all engineering disciplines except software engineering. If true, how do you compare candidates fo

by throwaway2037 2y ago

First, when you write "engineering", I suppose that you mean all engineering disciplines except software engineering. If true, how do you compare candidates for material science or civil engineering or aero engineering or mechanical engineering roles? I suppose that you will reply "talk to them" or "look at their experience". But, we have learned through squillions of posts here on HN, it just isn't enough. There are many charlatans that will slip through that type of interview process -- "great talker / good looking". This is the reason for the three-decade-long "arms race" in the technical interview process where programming problems become harder and harder over time. (Side comment: Does anyone think that people who can solve harder leetcode problems have a higher IQ? Controversially, on balance, I believe it to be true, and, thus, I think programming tests are a great way to filter for higher IQ candidates.)

godelski 2y ago
> But, we have learned through squillions of posts here on HN, it just isn't enough. Idk, I can usually tell when someone is an actual engineer vs armchair expert. Actually building stuff requires you to think differently. It's like how someone that just does CAD often fights with machinists because they don't understand the physical limitations. > There are many charlatans that will slip through that type of interview process Of course. But that also happens with leetcode style interviews. You can memorize problems and that doesn't reflect your actual job performance. There's a saying "studying to the test" The real question is the "optimization" question. Considering the time and cost of the interview process, along with the difficulty to remove bad employees, how effective is the interview process. You are optimizing for the best candidate but it's a constrained optimization problem. Otherwise you need infinite resources. So don't ignore the constraints. There's more that I haven't mentioned. > Does anyone think that people who can solve harder leetcode problems have a higher IQ? I know people who believe this. But I'm generally uninterested in anyone who has an obsession with IQ. So far it's been a fairly successful filter
joseda-hg 2y ago
If IQ were a universally appliable measure sure, but knowing how to tackle a specific kind of problem (Specially one not commonly used, and that you have to specifically train for) isn't the ideal measure either LeetCode specifically is famously dissimilar to day to day programming, and therefore (probably) a bad measure for Quality It's like saying that having a degree is better because it proves that you can follow trough It's not necessarily wrong, but it's a tertiary situation that doesn't neccesarily correlate (Even if it might, mostly)

godelski 2y ago

> But, we have learned through squillions of posts here on HN, it just isn't enough. Idk, I can usually tell when someone is an actual engineer vs armchair expert. Actually building stuff requires you to think differently. It's like how someone that just does CAD often fights with machinists because they don't understand the physical limitations. > There are many charlatans that will slip through that type of interview process Of course. But that also happens with leetcode style interviews. You can memorize problems and that doesn't reflect your actual job performance. There's a saying "studying to the test" The real question is the "optimization" question. Considering the time and cost of the interview process, along with the difficulty to remove bad employees, how effective is the interview process. You are optimizing for the best candidate but it's a constrained optimization problem. Otherwise you need infinite resources. So don't ignore the constraints. There's more that I haven't mentioned. > Does anyone think that people who can solve harder leetcode problems have a higher IQ? I know people who believe this. But I'm generally uninterested in anyone who has an obsession with IQ. So far it's been a fairly successful filter

joseda-hg 2y ago

If IQ were a universally appliable measure sure, but knowing how to tackle a specific kind of problem (Specially one not commonly used, and that you have to specifically train for) isn't the ideal measure either LeetCode specifically is famously dissimilar to day to day programming, and therefore (probably) a bad measure for Quality It's like saying that having a degree is better because it proves that you can follow trough It's not necessarily wrong, but it's a tertiary situation that doesn't neccesarily correlate (Even if it might, mostly)