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Can we fight fires with a fleet of AI powered drones? I've watched water bombers [like this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrOESRoD1Jk https://www.youtube.com

Can we fight fires with a fleet of AI powered drones? I've watched water bombers [like this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrOESRoD1Jk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrOESRoD1Jk) near my hometown. It seems like a lot of the water could be better targeted, and round trips to a body of water and back are long.

evo 2y ago
I feel like the thrust-to-weight dynamics on multicopter drones don’t really lend themselves to heavy payloads like water bombing in the quantities needed. An additional issue is that, due to wanting to maximize power density for the high amperage motors, you often end up using lithium-polymer battery formulations that are less than adequately shielded for the possible impacts the drone might incur. I would be concerned that the risk of a drone failure itself igniting a new fire in a remote area would outweigh the potential.
klodolph 2y ago
I tried doing some back of the envelope math but it doesn’t come out in favor of drones. The CL-415 that you shared in the link has a reported capacity around 6100 kg of water. When I searched for “heavy lift drones” I got the Draganfly Heavy Lift, which can reportedly carry 30 kg but only for 18 minutes of flight time (according to the company’s web site). I think the plane’s flight time is around 3 hours but obviously the math is a little more complicated than that.
- bwhiting2356 2y ago
  My thinking is that maybe * there aren't enough pilots * pilots understandably don't want to fly too close to the fire But a drone might be able to get away with carrying less water and do more of a targeted squirt.
  - klodolph 2y ago
    We’re talking, like, $10 million in drones to replace one pilot for 18 minutes. I don’t see any reason to believe there’s a pilot shortage, and I don’t understand what’s wrong with the current targeting, or how that could be improved. There’s a whole strategy to fighting fires of this scale. I don’t think the strategies are obvious to people on the ground.
waldrews 2y ago
They don't even need the AI navigation problems of delivery or military drones to be solved, just to be remote piloted along a given route. But all that solves is removing the risk to the human pilot and their weight - possibly being able to get closer to the fire. We still need to move volume of water to the target, and that means getting a lot of flying vehicles to the right location and time. There's been plenty of big area fires, but this is as bad as it gets in terms of population and assets exposed, so we need a lot of vehicles delivering water to a lot of locations simultaneously. Being prepared for this scale of operation means either having specialty firefighting planes and drones in reserve, or having other vehicles - general purpose drones or cropdusters or, heck, a Globemaster with a big ballon full of water in its belly - that can be repurposed and sent to this emergency from all over. Airships would be nice for the volume, but they aren't exactly friendly to the turbulent conditions near a fire.
m463 2y ago
I wonder if the drones are flying with propellers pointing down, can water be released as mist and blown downwards into the fire exactly where needed?

evo 2y ago

I feel like the thrust-to-weight dynamics on multicopter drones don’t really lend themselves to heavy payloads like water bombing in the quantities needed. An additional issue is that, due to wanting to maximize power density for the high amperage motors, you often end up using lithium-polymer battery formulations that are less than adequately shielded for the possible impacts the drone might incur. I would be concerned that the risk of a drone failure itself igniting a new fire in a remote area would outweigh the potential.

klodolph 2y ago

I tried doing some back of the envelope math but it doesn’t come out in favor of drones. The CL-415 that you shared in the link has a reported capacity around 6100 kg of water. When I searched for “heavy lift drones” I got the Draganfly Heavy Lift, which can reportedly carry 30 kg but only for 18 minutes of flight time (according to the company’s web site). I think the plane’s flight time is around 3 hours but obviously the math is a little more complicated than that.

bwhiting2356 2y ago
My thinking is that maybe * there aren't enough pilots * pilots understandably don't want to fly too close to the fire But a drone might be able to get away with carrying less water and do more of a targeted squirt.
- klodolph 2y ago
  We’re talking, like, $10 million in drones to replace one pilot for 18 minutes. I don’t see any reason to believe there’s a pilot shortage, and I don’t understand what’s wrong with the current targeting, or how that could be improved. There’s a whole strategy to fighting fires of this scale. I don’t think the strategies are obvious to people on the ground.

waldrews 2y ago

They don't even need the AI navigation problems of delivery or military drones to be solved, just to be remote piloted along a given route. But all that solves is removing the risk to the human pilot and their weight - possibly being able to get closer to the fire. We still need to move volume of water to the target, and that means getting a lot of flying vehicles to the right location and time. There's been plenty of big area fires, but this is as bad as it gets in terms of population and assets exposed, so we need a lot of vehicles delivering water to a lot of locations simultaneously. Being prepared for this scale of operation means either having specialty firefighting planes and drones in reserve, or having other vehicles - general purpose drones or cropdusters or, heck, a Globemaster with a big ballon full of water in its belly - that can be repurposed and sent to this emergency from all over. Airships would be nice for the volume, but they aren't exactly friendly to the turbulent conditions near a fire.

m463 2y ago

I wonder if the drones are flying with propellers pointing down, can water be released as mist and blown downwards into the fire exactly where needed?