4 ms·

Taken at face value, it's hideously evil, and we should fight as hard as possible to prevent this ideology from intruding any further into the culture of Americ

Taken at face value, it's hideously evil, and we should fight as hard as possible to prevent this ideology from intruding any further into the culture of American employers or employers of American workers. If there is context you feel is missing, you should add it.

aurareturn 2y ago
What would you do?
- minimaxir 2y ago
  Let affected people take time off work without requiring them to use sick hours or PTO.
  - paulcole 2y ago
    Are they being paid during that time? If so, what’s your limit on that?
    - erulabs 2y ago
      Your limit is how long it takes them to find somewhere safe for their family. I evacuated and got back online later that day. Several leaders reached out to me to ask if I needed anything or if I wanted to take time off. In response, I feel more allegiance, and want to work harder. I love my job even more than I did 3 days ago. Treat others how you would like to be treated. Respect breeds respect.
      - callc 2y ago
        I’m happy that your org seems respectful and humane. That’s incredibly rare nowadays.
    - johnnyanmac 2y ago
      Ideally yes. And the limit is until things are stable. But if you need a discrete answer, probably a few months? If we're in an emergency situation as a tech industry for more than a month, something much dire than business has happened. Many tech companies rebounded from COVID in a few months times.
FateOfNations 2y ago
The ideology that the employer-employee relationship is fundamentally one where labor is exchanged for money? The most I expect is, "Don't worry about things at work. Take care of yourself and your family. You are welcome to use any accumulated leave you have available, and your job will be here for you when you get back on your feet." My perspective may be colored a bit by working in an environment with strict labor cost accounting where labor is accounted for down to the tenth hour (even for salaried-exempt employees), and there isn't some magical slush fund that can be used to pay for what would otherwise be unpaid leave. We do have "disaster leave" for salaried employees, but it's on a "work extra hours over the next X weeks to make up for it" basis, where X is a reasonable number given the nature of the disaster. For run-of-the-mill "snow days," it's typically 4 weeks. Taking PTO is also an option, including running up to a 40-hour negative balance. Thankfully, I don't have to deal with any of these RTO shenanigans.
- yallpendantools 2y ago
  > And yet, TikTok’s LA-based employees are being told to either continue their work from home or use their personal/sick days if that’s not possible, while the company’s LA office remains closed due to power outages caused by high winds. In other words, in this case, employer is unable to provide a safe work environment (i.e., is not even "on their feet" at the moment) and their answer to that is to force employees to compensate for it using their own time off. I would call this behavior vindictive but in my book, to be vindictive first you need to have a soul.
  - FateOfNations 2y ago
    A natural disaster is neither the employee's nor the employer's fault. If a business's operations are interrupted due to a natural disaster (or for any other reason) and it cannot productively use an employee, it is appropriate to furlough or lay off that employee until operations can resume. Impacted employees can seek temporary or permanent employment elsewhere and, if eligible, apply for unemployment insurance compensation. The one-week waiting period for unemployment insurance is waived as part of state of emergency declarations. If an employer wants to pay employees to stay home and do nothing because no work is available, potentially to avoid losing valuable employees, they can do that, but they are not expected to. If working remotely is feasible, it can be mutually beneficial to both the employer and employee, but like everything employment-related, it's also voluntary on both sides of the deal.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
dqv 2y ago
> this ideology from intruding any further into the culture of American employers or employers of American workers. Are you doing satire? This is already the status quo for American employers. Do you mean American employers of the labor aristocracy? It is hideously evil, but your wording conjures the idea that US company culture hasn't been corrupted (even with the "any further" part). It has already gone too far. The only thing that's truly interesting to me is that it's a Chinese-influenced company and China hasn't used the last decade to do socialism diplomacy through TikTok.

aurareturn 2y ago

What would you do?

minimaxir 2y ago
Let affected people take time off work without requiring them to use sick hours or PTO.
- paulcole 2y ago
  Are they being paid during that time? If so, what’s your limit on that?
  - erulabs 2y ago
    Your limit is how long it takes them to find somewhere safe for their family. I evacuated and got back online later that day. Several leaders reached out to me to ask if I needed anything or if I wanted to take time off. In response, I feel more allegiance, and want to work harder. I love my job even more than I did 3 days ago. Treat others how you would like to be treated. Respect breeds respect.
    - callc 2y ago
      I’m happy that your org seems respectful and humane. That’s incredibly rare nowadays.
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    Ideally yes. And the limit is until things are stable. But if you need a discrete answer, probably a few months? If we're in an emergency situation as a tech industry for more than a month, something much dire than business has happened. Many tech companies rebounded from COVID in a few months times.

FateOfNations 2y ago

The ideology that the employer-employee relationship is fundamentally one where labor is exchanged for money? The most I expect is, "Don't worry about things at work. Take care of yourself and your family. You are welcome to use any accumulated leave you have available, and your job will be here for you when you get back on your feet." My perspective may be colored a bit by working in an environment with strict labor cost accounting where labor is accounted for down to the tenth hour (even for salaried-exempt employees), and there isn't some magical slush fund that can be used to pay for what would otherwise be unpaid leave. We do have "disaster leave" for salaried employees, but it's on a "work extra hours over the next X weeks to make up for it" basis, where X is a reasonable number given the nature of the disaster. For run-of-the-mill "snow days," it's typically 4 weeks. Taking PTO is also an option, including running up to a 40-hour negative balance. Thankfully, I don't have to deal with any of these RTO shenanigans.

yallpendantools 2y ago
> And yet, TikTok’s LA-based employees are being told to either continue their work from home or use their personal/sick days if that’s not possible, while the company’s LA office remains closed due to power outages caused by high winds. In other words, in this case, employer is unable to provide a safe work environment (i.e., is not even "on their feet" at the moment) and their answer to that is to force employees to compensate for it using their own time off. I would call this behavior vindictive but in my book, to be vindictive first you need to have a soul.
- FateOfNations 2y ago
  A natural disaster is neither the employee's nor the employer's fault. If a business's operations are interrupted due to a natural disaster (or for any other reason) and it cannot productively use an employee, it is appropriate to furlough or lay off that employee until operations can resume. Impacted employees can seek temporary or permanent employment elsewhere and, if eligible, apply for unemployment insurance compensation. The one-week waiting period for unemployment insurance is waived as part of state of emergency declarations. If an employer wants to pay employees to stay home and do nothing because no work is available, potentially to avoid losing valuable employees, they can do that, but they are not expected to. If working remotely is feasible, it can be mutually beneficial to both the employer and employee, but like everything employment-related, it's also voluntary on both sides of the deal.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

dqv 2y ago

> this ideology from intruding any further into the culture of American employers or employers of American workers. Are you doing satire? This is already the status quo for American employers. Do you mean American employers of the labor aristocracy? It is hideously evil, but your wording conjures the idea that US company culture hasn't been corrupted (even with the "any further" part). It has already gone too far. The only thing that's truly interesting to me is that it's a Chinese-influenced company and China hasn't used the last decade to do socialism diplomacy through TikTok.