4 ms·

I have heard some people having luck by switching to a ketogenic diet. Here’s a paper I could find on PubMed about this. Sorry to hear about your friend. https

I have heard some people having luck by switching to a ketogenic diet. Here’s a paper I could find on PubMed about this. Sorry to hear about your friend. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9504425/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9504425/ Edit: I am not a doctor. My wife is a physician and I spoke to her before posting this.

mixmastamyk 2y ago
While we're thinking about it, Vitamin D3 and K2-mk-7 are known to be helpful in that regard.
- myphone8356 2y ago
  Not an expert or doctor disclaimer. Sugar is the food cancer cells crave. Not a miracle cure but restricting sugars may help reduce the growth of the tumor.
  - hombre_fatal 2y ago
    I'm pretty sure that's an old myth that sugar preferentially feeds cancer cells and that you somehow starve them by reducing sugar intake. After all, the body maintains stable blood glucose levels regardless of how low your sugar intake is. e.g. https://news.cancerresearchuk.org/2023/08/16/sugar-and-cancer-what-you-need-to-know/ https://news.cancerresearchuk.org/2023/08/16/sugar-and-cance...
    - amenhotep 2y ago
      "Reducing sugar intake" is not the same thing as ketosis. I have no strong opinions on whether it would work or not, but that's an article addressing something different and more clearly a misunderstanding.
      - malfist 2y ago
        Even in ketosis your body keeps a stable amount of glucose in your body. The mechanism is different, but the end result isn't. Your brain _only_ operates on glucose, you'll never run out unless something is seriously wrong with your body.
jawilson2 2y ago
This. It is very dependent on the type of cancer. There is a lot of research on this. For a little context, I was a pediatric neurology professor for a while, and have been on a low carb diet for a decade. Much of the department did low carb, as did much of the oncology dept. Many kids with epilepsy are put on keto as well with great effect. I did a deep dive into low carb research before starting and keeping with the diet, and found a lot about using it for cancer therapy. I'm not sure what has changed in the last 10 years, but the above abstract looks promising. With a GBM, they probably don't have much to lose. *This is not medical advice, I'm not an MD (I was a BME doing epilepsy research), have them check with their Dr.
- droideqa 2y ago
  The keto diet was actually developed specifically to help people with epilepsy[0]. [0]: https://epilepsysociety.org.uk/about-epilepsy/treatment/ketogenic-diet https://epilepsysociety.org.uk/about-epilepsy/treatment/keto...
Dansvidania 2y ago
I wish I had something better to add, but I can add an anecdotal +1 to this. A relative went keto pretty hard after a bad diagnosis and they are still going strong. As far as I understand it, cancer cells can only function on glucose.
- layla5alive 2y ago
  Some types of cancer cells
  - Dansvidania 2y ago
    do you have a source for this? not arguing, just would like to read more
- circlefavshape 2y ago
  In my life a relative (by marriage) went keto after a bowel cancer diagnosis, and died at age 45
d--b 2y ago
Thanks a lot, I hadn't seen this. I'll read through.
olieidel 2y ago
+1 on this. I did my thesis on Glioblastoma-related imaging stuff [1]. The state of the art at the time (~2016) was that, realistically, none of the current treatments were "great", unfortunately. In short, you have 1) surgery, 2) chemotherapy, 3) radiation. Those treatments did extend survival in studies, but the overall survival of Glioblastoma patients was (tragically) still very bad at 12-24 months, and none of those therapy options were a cure. As a side note, I recommend the book "Being Mortal" from Atul Gawande. The TLDR here is that our healthcare systems tend to overtreat patients, especially those with cancer who actually have a rather bleak prognosis, because it's easier for a physician to simply order all treatments and tell the patient "all good here, good luck" instead of taking the time to sit down and have a (long) conversation about the bleak prognosis and which options are actually still worth it. By "worth it" I mean that there are trade-offs to each treatment option, and it takes some very careful weighing whether each one provides a net benefit for your friend's individual situation. E.g. surgery might extend survival by X months, but might also create, worst case, new disabilities. So now you're faced with the very difficult decision of whether to potentially live for a shorter time with less disabilities, or for a longer time with more. There's no perfect answer, but having this sort of discussion is a good step which many patients unfortunately never take. I think this is a failure in our healthcare systems and maybe in the education of physicians. Now, if I personally had a Glioblastoma, on top of the standard of care (surgery probably makes sense etc.), I think the ketogenic diet would currently be my best shot. Yeah, sure.. it's mostly only case reports so essentially anecdotal evidence, but it does look promising. Good luck for your friend! [1] https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=tinu7tYAAAAJ&hl=en https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=tinu7tYAAAAJ&hl=en
adamredwoods 2y ago
If diet could stop cancer, we'd be done by now. I guarantee every cancer will mutate to overcome any change in diet you can throw at it.
- stickfigure 2y ago
  All cancer treatments are probabilistic. There are no cures, just interventions that increase survival rates. There are no honest sentences that begin with "every cancer".
  - adamredwoods 2y ago
    There is no diet that will even intervene with cancer, unless the patient dies. Cancer is the patient's own cell that has mutated to a point beyond apoptosis and adapted to be able to draw nutrients from cells around it. It started from just one cell. It has already evaded dietary fluctuations and adapted. EDIT: the reason I'm a spaz about this is I feel too many people focus on diet as the focus of cancer. While it might be good for some prevention, it will not stop it, and I want people to focus on real treatments.
    - threeseed 2y ago
      I don't understand unreasonable positions like this. Nobody is saying that people should stop "real" treatments or that diet must be the primary or sole focus for treatment. But given that a change of diet (a) costs nothing, (b) has no downsides, (c) potentially may work it seems strange not to do it.
      - adamredwoods 2y ago
        And yet it is a highly focused topic and cancer rates have not gone down.
        throwaway290 2y ago
        Are keto diet/lifestyle changes/etc actually used by doctors for cancer treatment? Even if those were effective you can't expect cancer rates to go down until they get deployed massively

mixmastamyk 2y ago

While we're thinking about it, Vitamin D3 and K2-mk-7 are known to be helpful in that regard.

myphone8356 2y ago
Not an expert or doctor disclaimer. Sugar is the food cancer cells crave. Not a miracle cure but restricting sugars may help reduce the growth of the tumor.
- hombre_fatal 2y ago
  I'm pretty sure that's an old myth that sugar preferentially feeds cancer cells and that you somehow starve them by reducing sugar intake. After all, the body maintains stable blood glucose levels regardless of how low your sugar intake is. e.g. https://news.cancerresearchuk.org/2023/08/16/sugar-and-cancer-what-you-need-to-know/ https://news.cancerresearchuk.org/2023/08/16/sugar-and-cance...
  - amenhotep 2y ago
    "Reducing sugar intake" is not the same thing as ketosis. I have no strong opinions on whether it would work or not, but that's an article addressing something different and more clearly a misunderstanding.
    - malfist 2y ago
      Even in ketosis your body keeps a stable amount of glucose in your body. The mechanism is different, but the end result isn't. Your brain _only_ operates on glucose, you'll never run out unless something is seriously wrong with your body.

jawilson2 2y ago

This. It is very dependent on the type of cancer. There is a lot of research on this. For a little context, I was a pediatric neurology professor for a while, and have been on a low carb diet for a decade. Much of the department did low carb, as did much of the oncology dept. Many kids with epilepsy are put on keto as well with great effect. I did a deep dive into low carb research before starting and keeping with the diet, and found a lot about using it for cancer therapy. I'm not sure what has changed in the last 10 years, but the above abstract looks promising. With a GBM, they probably don't have much to lose. *This is not medical advice, I'm not an MD (I was a BME doing epilepsy research), have them check with their Dr.

droideqa 2y ago
The keto diet was actually developed specifically to help people with epilepsy[0]. [0]: https://epilepsysociety.org.uk/about-epilepsy/treatment/ketogenic-diet https://epilepsysociety.org.uk/about-epilepsy/treatment/keto...

Dansvidania 2y ago

I wish I had something better to add, but I can add an anecdotal +1 to this. A relative went keto pretty hard after a bad diagnosis and they are still going strong. As far as I understand it, cancer cells can only function on glucose.

layla5alive 2y ago
Some types of cancer cells
- Dansvidania 2y ago
  do you have a source for this? not arguing, just would like to read more
circlefavshape 2y ago
In my life a relative (by marriage) went keto after a bowel cancer diagnosis, and died at age 45

d--b 2y ago

Thanks a lot, I hadn't seen this. I'll read through.

olieidel 2y ago

+1 on this. I did my thesis on Glioblastoma-related imaging stuff [1]. The state of the art at the time (~2016) was that, realistically, none of the current treatments were "great", unfortunately. In short, you have 1) surgery, 2) chemotherapy, 3) radiation. Those treatments did extend survival in studies, but the overall survival of Glioblastoma patients was (tragically) still very bad at 12-24 months, and none of those therapy options were a cure. As a side note, I recommend the book "Being Mortal" from Atul Gawande. The TLDR here is that our healthcare systems tend to overtreat patients, especially those with cancer who actually have a rather bleak prognosis, because it's easier for a physician to simply order all treatments and tell the patient "all good here, good luck" instead of taking the time to sit down and have a (long) conversation about the bleak prognosis and which options are actually still worth it. By "worth it" I mean that there are trade-offs to each treatment option, and it takes some very careful weighing whether each one provides a net benefit for your friend's individual situation. E.g. surgery might extend survival by X months, but might also create, worst case, new disabilities. So now you're faced with the very difficult decision of whether to potentially live for a shorter time with less disabilities, or for a longer time with more. There's no perfect answer, but having this sort of discussion is a good step which many patients unfortunately never take. I think this is a failure in our healthcare systems and maybe in the education of physicians. Now, if I personally had a Glioblastoma, on top of the standard of care (surgery probably makes sense etc.), I think the ketogenic diet would currently be my best shot. Yeah, sure.. it's mostly only case reports so essentially anecdotal evidence, but it does look promising. Good luck for your friend! [1] https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=tinu7tYAAAAJ&hl=en https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=tinu7tYAAAAJ&hl=en

adamredwoods 2y ago

If diet could stop cancer, we'd be done by now. I guarantee every cancer will mutate to overcome any change in diet you can throw at it.

stickfigure 2y ago
All cancer treatments are probabilistic. There are no cures, just interventions that increase survival rates. There are no honest sentences that begin with "every cancer".
- adamredwoods 2y ago
  There is no diet that will even intervene with cancer, unless the patient dies. Cancer is the patient's own cell that has mutated to a point beyond apoptosis and adapted to be able to draw nutrients from cells around it. It started from just one cell. It has already evaded dietary fluctuations and adapted. EDIT: the reason I'm a spaz about this is I feel too many people focus on diet as the focus of cancer. While it might be good for some prevention, it will not stop it, and I want people to focus on real treatments.
  - threeseed 2y ago
    I don't understand unreasonable positions like this. Nobody is saying that people should stop "real" treatments or that diet must be the primary or sole focus for treatment. But given that a change of diet (a) costs nothing, (b) has no downsides, (c) potentially may work it seems strange not to do it.
    - adamredwoods 2y ago
      And yet it is a highly focused topic and cancer rates have not gone down.
      - throwaway290 2y ago
        Are keto diet/lifestyle changes/etc actually used by doctors for cancer treatment? Even if those were effective you can't expect cancer rates to go down until they get deployed massively