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China still generates approximately two thirds of it's electricity by burning fossil fuels so it still has a plenty of catching up to do. For example in my coun
by ttkari 2y ago
China still generates approximately two thirds of it's electricity by burning fossil fuels so it still has a plenty of catching up to do. For example in my country power generation is already 94% carbon free.
- __alexs 2y agoChina generates more renewable energy than the next highest 5 countries combined. It's nonsensical to compare them to most other countries.
- toomuchtodo 2y agoChina backing off coal power plant approvals after 2022-23 surge - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41303635 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41303635 - Aug 2024 China's total wind and solar capacity outstrips coal - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41220098 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41220098 - Aug 2024 China is on track to reach its 2030 clean energy targets already - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41026542 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41026542 - July 2024 China installing the wind / solar equivalent of 5 nuclear power stations a week - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40982276 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40982276 - July 2024 China building two-thirds of world's wind and solar projects - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40940950 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40940950 - July 2024 China's clean energy pushes coal to record-low 53% share of power in May 2024 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40935688 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40935688 - July 2024 China's Batteries Are Now Cheap Enough to Power Huge Shifts - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40919052 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40919052 - July 2024 China is building more coal plants but might burn less coal - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39440374 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39440374 - Feb 2024 Look at trajectories, think in systems. They are rapidly building a nation state clean energy electrical system, and when they're done domestically, these products will be exported globally. The graphs on the below page might be helpful. https://globalenergymonitor.org/report/china-continues-to-lead-the-world-in-wind-and-solar-with-twice-as-much-capacity-under-construction-as-the-rest-of-the-world-combined/ https://globalenergymonitor.org/report/china-continues-to-le...
- ttkari 2y agoSure - all I'm saying is that they still have a whole lot of building to do, that's all. Reading the headlines it's sometimes easy to think that they're pretty much already there while the current production mix is not all that great yet.
- Aloisius 2y agoI'm not sure the trajectory of PR matters much. The actual generation trajectory seems more useful: https://www.eia.gov/international/analysis/country/CHN https://www.eia.gov/international/analysis/country/CHN
- DavidPiper 2y agoI think that page is telling a similar story to the PR: "Primary energy production (percentage)" says 15% in Table 1 at the top, but I'm not sure how that's calculated - the whole table is as it seems to contradict the rest of the page: - Generation by renewable sources has grown from 25% -> 40% from 2013 -> 2022 (Figure 5) - 32 new nuclear power plants under construction in 2023 (Table 5) - 49% of installed capacity in 2022 was renewables (Figure 6)
- cbmuser 2y agoNuclear is much more important than wind and solar because it provides baseload and the plants last longer than 20 years.
- Aloisius 2y agoElectricity generation is what the grandparent was talking about, though the actual primary energy consumption of fossil fuels is more important w.r.t. climate change. Primary energy production includes things like domestic coal production. Primary energy consumption includes things like gas consumption by cars, imports and distribution losses.
- deadfoxygrandpa 2y ago
- notShabu 2y agoThere are two caveats to this. One is that a lot of it is due to work being outsourced to China (which allows for metrics like 94% carbon free) The other is it has a huge population so it's going to have high absolute numbers of everything good and bad.
- ttkari 2y agoActually, what allows for "94% carbon free" is the production mix. In our case that would be nuclear at 42% share, hydro 19%, wind 18%, bio 13% - leaving only single digit percentage to coal, gas and oil.
- zardo 2y agoBut it doesn't account for embodied energy in imported products.
- karmakurtisaani 2y agoIt's not typically included in the production figures. You only consider the emissions from production.
- in-pursuit 2y agoIt's not typically considered, but it matters when comparing against an economy that primarily manufactures goods.
- vladms 2y agoThe initial statement was about power generation, not sure if it is of value to mention in this context all the other sources of carbon (of which imported products is one, but not the only one).
- christina97 2y agoFinland is unfortunately a bit of an outlier. I wish the rest of the world would also double down on nuclear.
- schmichael 2y agoNuclear requires an extremely mature bureaucracy to handle the serious longterm risks efficiently. Here in the USA I'm just not sure our government is mature enough for the task. Every 4 years we may have someone come in to slash safety regulations or erect impossible regulatory barriers, not to mention all of our defense treaty obligations and their churn. Every year (or less!) our congress may decide to let the government shutdown and stop paying critical contractors. Trains carrying spent or unspent fuel may derail thanks to inefficient regulation. etc etc. One of the massive benefits of wind and solar is that it can be scaled down to a size even a consumer can deploy. This makes it relatively resilient to regulatory whims compared to massive undertakings like nuclear. I'm not a nuclear engineer, but I suspect the recent emphasis on smaller nuclear plants has more to do with navigating regulatory hurdles and uncertainty than efficiency. All that to say I am quite jealous of countries with mature bureaucratic regimes that can efficiently manage nuclear!
- 15155 2y ago> navigating regulatory hurdles and uncertainty than efficiency. Yes, but also (theoretically-real) economies of scale.
- bamboozled 2y agoThey also make basically everything, so yeah, not sure what you expect. If America produced everything for the world, our fossil fuel usage would be through the roof as well.