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The problem with veganism is that, unless you grow your own food, it does not change the fact that an immense amount of pain and suffering is inflicted on other

The problem with veganism is that, unless you grow your own food, it does not change the fact that an immense amount of pain and suffering is inflicted on other beings in the production and transportation of the food you eat. It's pure virtue signaling. If they genuinely cared about minimizing suffering, they'd be Jains, not vegans.

aziaziazi 2y ago
I think you didn’t understand veganism: the goal is not to remove all suffering but to reduce it by finding ways that are still practicable, without major economic, pleasure or whatever downside. All vegans kill insects when they walk in the wood but stoping walking altogether would make their life miserable. On the other hand, eating plants and mushroom is quite enjoyable when you get used to it. And it certainly remove a bug part of suffering inflicted. Think Pareto. I don’t think jainism can be applied without changing your life altogether and removing many thinks you used to.
whimsicalism 2y ago
uhhhh explain? is there some extreme amount of suffering that goes into the production of root vegetables because afaik that’s the only distinction between jainism and veganism?
- barbazoo 2y ago
  Maybe the temporary foreign worker living in economic servitude to the farm that guarantees their job. /s For many, perfect is the enemy of the good. Either you remove all suffering or you're a hypocrite. Meanwhile us that genuinely care about our impact on the environment make incremental changes to reduce our negative impact.
samuelbalogh 2y ago
Veganism is about reducing suffering as much as practical and possible. Some people (you included) have a problem with that and reject it altogether because of cognitive biases. Yes there are crop death and suffering due to veganism. A plant based diet however reduces this by about 75%. https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets

aziaziazi 2y ago

I think you didn’t understand veganism: the goal is not to remove all suffering but to reduce it by finding ways that are still practicable, without major economic, pleasure or whatever downside. All vegans kill insects when they walk in the wood but stoping walking altogether would make their life miserable. On the other hand, eating plants and mushroom is quite enjoyable when you get used to it. And it certainly remove a bug part of suffering inflicted. Think Pareto. I don’t think jainism can be applied without changing your life altogether and removing many thinks you used to.

whimsicalism 2y ago

uhhhh explain? is there some extreme amount of suffering that goes into the production of root vegetables because afaik that’s the only distinction between jainism and veganism?

barbazoo 2y ago
Maybe the temporary foreign worker living in economic servitude to the farm that guarantees their job. /s For many, perfect is the enemy of the good. Either you remove all suffering or you're a hypocrite. Meanwhile us that genuinely care about our impact on the environment make incremental changes to reduce our negative impact.

samuelbalogh 2y ago

Veganism is about reducing suffering as much as practical and possible. Some people (you included) have a problem with that and reject it altogether because of cognitive biases. Yes there are crop death and suffering due to veganism. A plant based diet however reduces this by about 75%. https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets