6 ms·

The Complete Text of "All Watched over by Machines of Loving Grace"

64 points by MilnerRoute 2y ago

mibes 2y ago
Thought for a moment this would be a transcript of the captivating Adam Curtis documentary by the same name.
- pizza 2y ago
  Same here lol
- JohnCClarke 2y ago
  Me too! How fascinating to know the title came from a poem.
mmastrac 2y ago
I assume this is because of the recent talk "Self Moderls of Loving Grace", which is a fun mashup of cutting edge AI models and philosophy: https://events.ccc.de/congress/2024/hub/en/event/self-models-of-loving-grace/ https://events.ccc.de/congress/2024/hub/en/event/self-models...
- jgrahamc 2y ago
  No, it's because I love poems. I didn't know about that talk.
  - dannyobrien 2y ago
    It's such a beautiful poem, and it's now making me realise how much of a background influence reading Brautigan's <i>Trout Fishing in America</i> as a kid had on me. Some other short poems from Brautigan here (not really that representative, but fun): https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/richard-brautigan https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/richard-brautigan
  - Thoreandan 2y ago
    Thanks for the post! Is your blog intentionally blocked from Internet Archive's Wayback Machine?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
4ndrewl 2y ago
It also features in the Tate Modern's current exhibition "Electric Dreams - Art and Technology Before the Internet" https://www.tate.org.uk/whats-on/tate-modern/electric-dreams https://www.tate.org.uk/whats-on/tate-modern/electric-dreams
- jgrahamc 2y ago
  Oh, thanks for that. I should pop into that the next time I'm in London.
chaps 2y ago
This poem feels completely different now than in the 60s, I'm sure. Like it's advocating for a techno optimistic dystopia where nobody, not even animals, can be left alone by the countlessly pervasive benevolent machines of faceless masters.
- _yb2s 2y ago
  This is my personal interpretation- but I think that the modern reading you are implying was very much intended to be the context in which it was written. Brautigan's use of the tone of naive extreme optimism was intended to be ironic and terrifyingly dystopian. I'll cite the rest of the work in this same book posted here- none of his poems are shallow, naive, or very optimistic - especially with regard to technology and it's effect on the natural environment. I do think he intended to leave the reader wondering if he was serious or not.
- xsmasher 2y ago
  In isolation it seems pretty utopian and optimistic, but reading a few more of the poems makes me doubt he was really that starry-eyed about the future. The line about rejoining our animal brothers has a faint smell of "the matrix." It always reminds me of Donald's Fagan's I.G.Y. - the lyrics are 99% utopian Here at home we'll play in the city Powered by the sun Perfect weather for a streamlined world There'll be spandex jackets, one for everyone With just one hint of trouble brewing A just machine to make big decisions Programmed by fellows with compassion and vision We'll be clean when their work is done We'll be eternally free, yes, and eternally young https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOQUzrhTBgw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOQUzrhTBgw
  - varelse 2y ago
    [dead]
marssaxman 2y ago
I had been familiar with the title phrase for many years, particularly through its association with industrial music, but did not know there was a whole poem attached to it until I saw it printed up in a little display on the counter of a pop-up cyberpunk ramen bar at a local Burning Man-affiliated festival.
- jhallenworld 2y ago
  Same, now I'm listening to "Machines of Loving Grace: Butterfly Wings" which I've not heard in a very long time..
csours 2y ago
Reminds me of Nothing But Flowers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iiGqBfyLaw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iiGqBfyLaw Feels like a depth optical illusion - the meaning can change based on perspective https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crater_illusion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crater_illusion Also reminds me of Becky Chambers' Monk and Robot
- mkaic 2y ago
  Monk and Robot is such a wonderful series. I have often wondered about the "now what" part of living in a hypothetical utopia, and Chambers explores that existential question really thoughtfully.
geuis 2y ago
I've read the titled poem before but never knew there were others in the collection. They're all really enjoyable. I'm not someone that has ever really appreciated or liked poetry too much in general. It's always been presented to me as esoteric word smithing by people trying to be intellectual for the sake of sounding smart. But I really enjoy the simple and straight language in these and that they're startling funny.
_yb2s 2y ago
This poem is one of the few I've ever read that gives me physical chills. I've read it before of course, but not the rest of the work in the PDF- which was also excellent. Thanks for posting.
bee_rider 2y ago
His poems portray him as a sort of selfish but also very self-aware and basically well intentioned character. The change in tone from poem to poem, and that general vibe makes for an interesting read. They seem very honest. It is interesting that Wikipedia describes him as a Hippy. I somehow got it into my head that he was the last beatnik. But, I can’t find any support for this theory in a quick googling, and I’m pretty bad at literature. So, I wonder where I stumbled across that idea.
- _yb2s 2y ago
  > I somehow got it into my head that he was the last beatnik One thousand percent, his general attitude reminds me of Gary Snyder aka Japhy Ryder- of course also a famous beat poet. I think nowadays people don't even know what beatnik means. Although I wouldn't call him the "last beatnik" - he died 40 years ago and a few of the other original beatniks are still around, and even still writing. I'm good friends with a lesser known original beat poet, a very old guy but fun to talk to.
- seanicus 2y ago
  If he was publishing as far back as the 50's I'm sure he was familiar with the beat writers and probably interacted with them, not to mention his style feels closer to a bridge between the beats and the hippies. The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test is a great document of the transitory era between the two.
- _yb2s 2y ago
  As an update to my previous comment here is a detailed article I found on Brautigan's complex relationship with the more famous beat poets: https://www.beatdom.com/ginsberg-brautigan/ https://www.beatdom.com/ginsberg-brautigan/ In short, he was there in SF doing poetry readings at the same place and time as Ginsberg, Snyder, etc. -and they were regulars at parties he hosted, but it sounds like he felt socially rejected, bullied, and looked down upon by most of the beat social group, and actively refused both the labels beat and hippie. Still, I agree the label fits both in the ideas in his work, and the time and place in which he wrote them.
more_corn 2y ago
What a fabulous collection!
noumenon1111 2y ago
Here, I think I fixed it: I hate to think (take the bandage off quickly!) of a cybernetic ghetto where mammals and computers strive together in mutually destructive chaos like pure water soaking dead trash. I hate to think (not now, please!) of a cybernetic whorehouse; Amazon, Google, Microsoft exact tolls peacefully from computers though already paid for, for extra "content". I hate to think (it cannot be!) of a cybernetic lobotomy where we are free of our nature and farmed for our labors, subjected through mammal weakness and instinct, and all watched over by machines of loving grace.
- 0_gravitas 2y ago
  i highly recommend the collection __"Poems"__ by Iain Banks + Ken MacLeod if you've never come across it before, this 'rewriting' has a similar energy as some of Banks' poems and I think you might like them https://www.amazon.com/Poems-Iain-Banks/dp/1408705877 https://www.amazon.com/Poems-Iain-Banks/dp/1408705877
  - nottorp 2y ago
    And that's why HN is worth reading. You randomly browse and someone tells you out of the blue that one of your favourite science fiction authors (who's also written some mainstream lit that you know about) also has a book of poetry...
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
OhMeadhbh 2y ago
Cool to find out there are poetry fans on HN.
lantry 2y ago
Yes! I was just looking for this a few months ago. I know the poem is typically interpreted as ironic, but I like to read it as exceedingly idealistic. The idea that Man, Nature, and Technology can all coexist in harmony is very tantalizing!
irq-1 2y ago
At the California Institute of Technology I don't care how God-damn smart these guys are: I'm bored. It's been raining like hell all day long and there's nothing to do. Written January 24, 1967 while poet-in-residence at the California Institute of Technology.
gausswho 2y ago
Wild to read the copyright statement. Gives permission to reprint any of the poems in magazines books or newspapers as long as they are given away free. Like a precursor to the copyleft movement / GPL.

64 points by MilnerRoute 2y ago

mibes 2y ago

Thought for a moment this would be a transcript of the captivating Adam Curtis documentary by the same name.

pizza 2y ago
Same here lol
JohnCClarke 2y ago
Me too! How fascinating to know the title came from a poem.

mmastrac 2y ago

I assume this is because of the recent talk "Self Moderls of Loving Grace", which is a fun mashup of cutting edge AI models and philosophy: https://events.ccc.de/congress/2024/hub/en/event/self-models-of-loving-grace/ https://events.ccc.de/congress/2024/hub/en/event/self-models...

jgrahamc 2y ago
No, it's because I love poems. I didn't know about that talk.
- dannyobrien 2y ago
  It's such a beautiful poem, and it's now making me realise how much of a background influence reading Brautigan's <i>Trout Fishing in America</i> as a kid had on me. Some other short poems from Brautigan here (not really that representative, but fun): https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/richard-brautigan https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/richard-brautigan
- Thoreandan 2y ago
  Thanks for the post! Is your blog intentionally blocked from Internet Archive's Wayback Machine?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

4ndrewl 2y ago

It also features in the Tate Modern's current exhibition "Electric Dreams - Art and Technology Before the Internet" https://www.tate.org.uk/whats-on/tate-modern/electric-dreams https://www.tate.org.uk/whats-on/tate-modern/electric-dreams

jgrahamc 2y ago
Oh, thanks for that. I should pop into that the next time I'm in London.

chaps 2y ago

This poem feels completely different now than in the 60s, I'm sure. Like it's advocating for a techno optimistic dystopia where nobody, not even animals, can be left alone by the countlessly pervasive benevolent machines of faceless masters.

_yb2s 2y ago
This is my personal interpretation- but I think that the modern reading you are implying was very much intended to be the context in which it was written. Brautigan's use of the tone of naive extreme optimism was intended to be ironic and terrifyingly dystopian. I'll cite the rest of the work in this same book posted here- none of his poems are shallow, naive, or very optimistic - especially with regard to technology and it's effect on the natural environment. I do think he intended to leave the reader wondering if he was serious or not.
xsmasher 2y ago
In isolation it seems pretty utopian and optimistic, but reading a few more of the poems makes me doubt he was really that starry-eyed about the future. The line about rejoining our animal brothers has a faint smell of "the matrix." It always reminds me of Donald's Fagan's I.G.Y. - the lyrics are 99% utopian Here at home we'll play in the city Powered by the sun Perfect weather for a streamlined world There'll be spandex jackets, one for everyone With just one hint of trouble brewing A just machine to make big decisions Programmed by fellows with compassion and vision We'll be clean when their work is done We'll be eternally free, yes, and eternally young https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOQUzrhTBgw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOQUzrhTBgw
- varelse 2y ago
  [dead]

marssaxman 2y ago

I had been familiar with the title phrase for many years, particularly through its association with industrial music, but did not know there was a whole poem attached to it until I saw it printed up in a little display on the counter of a pop-up cyberpunk ramen bar at a local Burning Man-affiliated festival.

jhallenworld 2y ago
Same, now I'm listening to "Machines of Loving Grace: Butterfly Wings" which I've not heard in a very long time..

csours 2y ago

Reminds me of Nothing But Flowers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iiGqBfyLaw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iiGqBfyLaw Feels like a depth optical illusion - the meaning can change based on perspective https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crater_illusion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crater_illusion Also reminds me of Becky Chambers' Monk and Robot

mkaic 2y ago
Monk and Robot is such a wonderful series. I have often wondered about the "now what" part of living in a hypothetical utopia, and Chambers explores that existential question really thoughtfully.

geuis 2y ago

I've read the titled poem before but never knew there were others in the collection. They're all really enjoyable. I'm not someone that has ever really appreciated or liked poetry too much in general. It's always been presented to me as esoteric word smithing by people trying to be intellectual for the sake of sounding smart. But I really enjoy the simple and straight language in these and that they're startling funny.

_yb2s 2y ago

This poem is one of the few I've ever read that gives me physical chills. I've read it before of course, but not the rest of the work in the PDF- which was also excellent. Thanks for posting.

bee_rider 2y ago

His poems portray him as a sort of selfish but also very self-aware and basically well intentioned character. The change in tone from poem to poem, and that general vibe makes for an interesting read. They seem very honest. It is interesting that Wikipedia describes him as a Hippy. I somehow got it into my head that he was the last beatnik. But, I can’t find any support for this theory in a quick googling, and I’m pretty bad at literature. So, I wonder where I stumbled across that idea.

_yb2s 2y ago
> I somehow got it into my head that he was the last beatnik One thousand percent, his general attitude reminds me of Gary Snyder aka Japhy Ryder- of course also a famous beat poet. I think nowadays people don't even know what beatnik means. Although I wouldn't call him the "last beatnik" - he died 40 years ago and a few of the other original beatniks are still around, and even still writing. I'm good friends with a lesser known original beat poet, a very old guy but fun to talk to.
seanicus 2y ago
If he was publishing as far back as the 50's I'm sure he was familiar with the beat writers and probably interacted with them, not to mention his style feels closer to a bridge between the beats and the hippies. The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test is a great document of the transitory era between the two.
_yb2s 2y ago
As an update to my previous comment here is a detailed article I found on Brautigan's complex relationship with the more famous beat poets: https://www.beatdom.com/ginsberg-brautigan/ https://www.beatdom.com/ginsberg-brautigan/ In short, he was there in SF doing poetry readings at the same place and time as Ginsberg, Snyder, etc. -and they were regulars at parties he hosted, but it sounds like he felt socially rejected, bullied, and looked down upon by most of the beat social group, and actively refused both the labels beat and hippie. Still, I agree the label fits both in the ideas in his work, and the time and place in which he wrote them.

more_corn 2y ago

What a fabulous collection!

noumenon1111 2y ago

Here, I think I fixed it: I hate to think (take the bandage off quickly!) of a cybernetic ghetto where mammals and computers strive together in mutually destructive chaos like pure water soaking dead trash. I hate to think (not now, please!) of a cybernetic whorehouse; Amazon, Google, Microsoft exact tolls peacefully from computers though already paid for, for extra "content". I hate to think (it cannot be!) of a cybernetic lobotomy where we are free of our nature and farmed for our labors, subjected through mammal weakness and instinct, and all watched over by machines of loving grace.

0_gravitas 2y ago
i highly recommend the collection __"Poems"__ by Iain Banks + Ken MacLeod if you've never come across it before, this 'rewriting' has a similar energy as some of Banks' poems and I think you might like them https://www.amazon.com/Poems-Iain-Banks/dp/1408705877 https://www.amazon.com/Poems-Iain-Banks/dp/1408705877
- nottorp 2y ago
  And that's why HN is worth reading. You randomly browse and someone tells you out of the blue that one of your favourite science fiction authors (who's also written some mainstream lit that you know about) also has a book of poetry...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

OhMeadhbh 2y ago

Cool to find out there are poetry fans on HN.

lantry 2y ago

Yes! I was just looking for this a few months ago. I know the poem is typically interpreted as ironic, but I like to read it as exceedingly idealistic. The idea that Man, Nature, and Technology can all coexist in harmony is very tantalizing!

irq-1 2y ago

At the California Institute of Technology I don't care how God-damn smart these guys are: I'm bored. It's been raining like hell all day long and there's nothing to do. Written January 24, 1967 while poet-in-residence at the California Institute of Technology.

gausswho 2y ago

Wild to read the copyright statement. Gives permission to reprint any of the poems in magazines books or newspapers as long as they are given away free. Like a precursor to the copyleft movement / GPL.