6 ms·

As a neuroscientist, yes. But this is true of most science & medicine news written for a general audience. I have to tell my parents to stop reading "Chocolate

As a neuroscientist, yes. But this is true of most science & medicine news written for a general audience. I have to tell my parents to stop reading "Chocolate is a superfood / Chocolate causes cancer" articles every year. Uncertainty isn't good for engagement, even if it's correct.

thechao 2y ago
Nonlinear (and inverting!) response curves for drug dosimetry that's population and person specific. Especially when there's a temporal delay. Trying to explain grapefruit to my elderly parents is like pulling teeth.
- krisoft 2y ago
  > Trying to explain grapefruit to my elderly parents is like pulling teeth. It is not that hard. It is a fruit roughly the same size and appearance as an orange, but more bitter. See! I explained it. :) Joking asside, what are you trying to explain about grapefruit to your elderly parents? Is it the weird way it interacts with certain medicines?
  - xp84 2y ago
    It can potentially double or triple the effective dose you’ll absorb of many medications, so weird doesn’t adequately describe it. “Potentially life-threatening” is better.
    - mattgreenrocks 2y ago
      This is the first time I've heard of that. Glad I stumbled across this, even though I hate the taste.
      - krisoft 2y ago
        Have you heard the one about lychee? There is some compound in them which can lower your blood glucose levels. The sugar from digesting the fruit will eventually push up your sugar levels, so it all ends up okay eventually, and the drop is relatively small. But if you already have a low blood sugar level, and eat a lot of lychee it can maybe even kill you. So don’t eat them for an empty stomach just to stay on the safe side. That is my other “tasty fruit with a weirdly dangerous rare side-effect” fact.
    - krisoft 2y ago
      I heard this before. (Perhaps even on hacker news.) The way i stored it in my brain is “grapefruit is weird, don’t eat or drink grapefruit juice when on medication. Why? It might make you ill or even kill you.” Obviously that form is ovesimplified. But since I’m not a pharmacist, nor a doctor I can allow this simplification for myself because it “fails-safe”. That is it might make me refrain from eating grapefruit in a situation where I could safely do so, but it will save me from eating grapefruit in situations where it is not safe. It would be harder if I would need to remember that I must eat grapefruit in some situations and can’t eat in other situations. The reason why I’m saying this is because this is how I would approach explaining this to someone. By oversimplifying to the point where the safe story is easy to remember. People already understand that they can’t mix alcohol and certain medications. So it is just one more thing you can’t mix with medication.
      - AbstractH24 2y ago
        Grapefruit is a bad example, because it has a clear impact on the way certain medications are metabolized. That’s chemistry more than anything else. But your overall point makes sense because so many of these claims are based on studies that boil down to “playing the carefully controlled odds.”
    - neom 2y ago
      "The intensity comes down to how grapefruit's compounds mainly furanocoumarins inhibit CYP3A4. Normally, this enzyme would help break down psilocybin into psilocin and metabolize it out of your system. When CYP3A4 is inhibited, more psilocybin remains in your bloodstream longer, allowing for a higher concentration of psilocin to flood your brain at once. This rapid spike in active compound could overwhelm your serotonin receptors, particularly the 5-HT2A receptors, which are the primary target of psilocin." - Found that on erowid years ago, always thought it sounded silly (yet I copied it down ha) - maybe worth giving a go.
  - robwwilliams 2y ago
    Here is a great review by Bailey and colleagues who discovered the risks of grapefruit in drug metabolism. It is from 2013. This is a GREAT example if genotype-by-drug interaction and why knowing your genotype can be extremely useful. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3589309/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3589309/ >Our research group discovered the interaction between grapefruit and certain medications more than 20 years ago [1990s].1–3 Currently, more than 85 drugs, most of which are available in Canada, are known or predicted to interact with grapefruit. This interaction enhances systemic drug concentration through impaired drug metabolism. Many of the drugs that interact with grapefruit are highly prescribed and are essential for the treatment of important or common medical conditions. Recently, however, a disturbing trend has been seen. Between 2008 and 2012, the number of medications with the potential to interact with grapefruit and cause serious adverse effects (i.e., torsade de pointes, rhabdomyolysis, myelotoxicity, respiratory depression, gastrointestinal bleeding, nephrotoxicity) has increased from 17 to 43, representing an average rate of increase exceeding 6 drugs per year. This increase is a result of the introduction of new chemical entities and formulations.
- kbelder 2y ago
  I'm sure they felt the same trying to explain certain things to their child :)
godelski 2y ago
> I have to tell my parents to stop reading As a researcher myself, I really dislike that this is even a thing. I constantly have friends send me articles asking what I think about things (frequently the answer is "I have no idea" and/or "the paper says something different"). I'm livid about this because this erodes public trust in science. Worse, people don't see that connection... I don't understand how major news publications can't be bothered to actually reach out to authors. Or how universities themselves will do that and embellish work. I get that it's "only a little" embellishment, but it's not a slippery slope considering how often we see that compound (and how it is an excuse rather than acting in good faith). The truth is that the public does not understand the difference in the confidence levels of scientists for things like "anthropomorphic climate change" vs "drinking wine and eating chocolate is healthy for you." To them, it's just "scientists" who are some conglomerate. It is so pervasive that I can talk to my parents about something things I have domain expertise and written papers on and they believe scientists are making tons of money over this while I was struggling with student debt. I have to explain when I worked at a national lab isn't full of rich people[0]. There's a lot of easier ways to make money... And my parents, each, made more than any of the scientists I knew... [0] People I know that have jumped ship and moved from lab to industry 2x-3x their salary (these are people with PhDs btw). https://www.levels.fyi/companies/oak-ridge-national-laboratory/salaries/software-engineer https://www.levels.fyi/companies/oak-ridge-national-laborato... https://www.levels.fyi/companies/lawrence-livermore-national-laboratory/salaries/software-engineer https://www.levels.fyi/companies/lawrence-livermore-national... [Side note]: I wish we were able to be more honest in papers too. But I have lots of issues with the review system and the biggest is probably that no one wants to actually make any meaningful changes despite constant failure in the process and widespread frustration.
- istjohn 2y ago
  Yes. My dad cites the vaccilation of the science on whether or not eggs are healthy as the reason he places no trust in what scientists say. Of course, he is mistaking science reporting for the science itself, but he should be able to trust the media to accurately communicate the scientific consensus. It's one thing when we're talking about eggs or chocolate, but now he's skeptical of science reporting on global warming and COVID-19. And is that unreasonable? Why should he put a high credence in any science reporting going forward? He's a construction worker. He's not equiped to go read the journal articles for himself. Of course, we haven't even touched on the replication crisis, of which thankfully my dad is blissfully unaware.
ggm 2y ago
Another sign "big Carob" has taken over the health industry, pushing its "kids, it's healthier" lie. Chocolate, Wine and Cheese are the three vital food groups.
- kagakuninja 2y ago
  I can remember my mother giving me carob 50 years ago, because it is "healthier than chocolate". Never forget.
  - ggm 2y ago
    My mum was at least honest: she said, "it's kind of like chocolate but not as nice" and I think that's fair.
- xarope 2y ago
  Surely you did not mean to miss out ice cream? Could Ice Cream Possibly Be Good For You? https://archive.is/quPv4 https://archive.is/quPv4 Disclaimer: I'm not a big wine drinker, but ice-cream here I come...
  - ggm 2y ago
    You can make a fantastic "mud-slide" with cheap ice cream and premade custard, and of course vodka, kahlua and baileys. So yes, I will admit ice cream to the pantheon. If you go fancy-schmancy and get gelati then I'll even admit fruit, as long as it's a strawberry daquiri
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Terr_ 2y ago
Relevant comic, "The Science News Cycle" https://phdcomics.com/comics.php?f=1174 https://phdcomics.com/comics.php?f=1174

thechao 2y ago

Nonlinear (and inverting!) response curves for drug dosimetry that's population and person specific. Especially when there's a temporal delay. Trying to explain grapefruit to my elderly parents is like pulling teeth.

krisoft 2y ago
> Trying to explain grapefruit to my elderly parents is like pulling teeth. It is not that hard. It is a fruit roughly the same size and appearance as an orange, but more bitter. See! I explained it. :) Joking asside, what are you trying to explain about grapefruit to your elderly parents? Is it the weird way it interacts with certain medicines?
- xp84 2y ago
  It can potentially double or triple the effective dose you’ll absorb of many medications, so weird doesn’t adequately describe it. “Potentially life-threatening” is better.
  - mattgreenrocks 2y ago
    This is the first time I've heard of that. Glad I stumbled across this, even though I hate the taste.
    - krisoft 2y ago
      Have you heard the one about lychee? There is some compound in them which can lower your blood glucose levels. The sugar from digesting the fruit will eventually push up your sugar levels, so it all ends up okay eventually, and the drop is relatively small. But if you already have a low blood sugar level, and eat a lot of lychee it can maybe even kill you. So don’t eat them for an empty stomach just to stay on the safe side. That is my other “tasty fruit with a weirdly dangerous rare side-effect” fact.
  - krisoft 2y ago
    I heard this before. (Perhaps even on hacker news.) The way i stored it in my brain is “grapefruit is weird, don’t eat or drink grapefruit juice when on medication. Why? It might make you ill or even kill you.” Obviously that form is ovesimplified. But since I’m not a pharmacist, nor a doctor I can allow this simplification for myself because it “fails-safe”. That is it might make me refrain from eating grapefruit in a situation where I could safely do so, but it will save me from eating grapefruit in situations where it is not safe. It would be harder if I would need to remember that I must eat grapefruit in some situations and can’t eat in other situations. The reason why I’m saying this is because this is how I would approach explaining this to someone. By oversimplifying to the point where the safe story is easy to remember. People already understand that they can’t mix alcohol and certain medications. So it is just one more thing you can’t mix with medication.
    - AbstractH24 2y ago
      Grapefruit is a bad example, because it has a clear impact on the way certain medications are metabolized. That’s chemistry more than anything else. But your overall point makes sense because so many of these claims are based on studies that boil down to “playing the carefully controlled odds.”
  - neom 2y ago
    "The intensity comes down to how grapefruit's compounds mainly furanocoumarins inhibit CYP3A4. Normally, this enzyme would help break down psilocybin into psilocin and metabolize it out of your system. When CYP3A4 is inhibited, more psilocybin remains in your bloodstream longer, allowing for a higher concentration of psilocin to flood your brain at once. This rapid spike in active compound could overwhelm your serotonin receptors, particularly the 5-HT2A receptors, which are the primary target of psilocin." - Found that on erowid years ago, always thought it sounded silly (yet I copied it down ha) - maybe worth giving a go.
- robwwilliams 2y ago
  Here is a great review by Bailey and colleagues who discovered the risks of grapefruit in drug metabolism. It is from 2013. This is a GREAT example if genotype-by-drug interaction and why knowing your genotype can be extremely useful. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3589309/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3589309/ >Our research group discovered the interaction between grapefruit and certain medications more than 20 years ago [1990s].1–3 Currently, more than 85 drugs, most of which are available in Canada, are known or predicted to interact with grapefruit. This interaction enhances systemic drug concentration through impaired drug metabolism. Many of the drugs that interact with grapefruit are highly prescribed and are essential for the treatment of important or common medical conditions. Recently, however, a disturbing trend has been seen. Between 2008 and 2012, the number of medications with the potential to interact with grapefruit and cause serious adverse effects (i.e., torsade de pointes, rhabdomyolysis, myelotoxicity, respiratory depression, gastrointestinal bleeding, nephrotoxicity) has increased from 17 to 43, representing an average rate of increase exceeding 6 drugs per year. This increase is a result of the introduction of new chemical entities and formulations.
kbelder 2y ago
I'm sure they felt the same trying to explain certain things to their child :)

godelski 2y ago

> I have to tell my parents to stop reading As a researcher myself, I really dislike that this is even a thing. I constantly have friends send me articles asking what I think about things (frequently the answer is "I have no idea" and/or "the paper says something different"). I'm livid about this because this erodes public trust in science. Worse, people don't see that connection... I don't understand how major news publications can't be bothered to actually reach out to authors. Or how universities themselves will do that and embellish work. I get that it's "only a little" embellishment, but it's not a slippery slope considering how often we see that compound (and how it is an excuse rather than acting in good faith). The truth is that the public does not understand the difference in the confidence levels of scientists for things like "anthropomorphic climate change" vs "drinking wine and eating chocolate is healthy for you." To them, it's just "scientists" who are some conglomerate. It is so pervasive that I can talk to my parents about something things I have domain expertise and written papers on and they believe scientists are making tons of money over this while I was struggling with student debt. I have to explain when I worked at a national lab isn't full of rich people[0]. There's a lot of easier ways to make money... And my parents, each, made more than any of the scientists I knew... [0] People I know that have jumped ship and moved from lab to industry 2x-3x their salary (these are people with PhDs btw). https://www.levels.fyi/companies/oak-ridge-national-laboratory/salaries/software-engineer https://www.levels.fyi/companies/oak-ridge-national-laborato... https://www.levels.fyi/companies/lawrence-livermore-national-laboratory/salaries/software-engineer https://www.levels.fyi/companies/lawrence-livermore-national... [Side note]: I wish we were able to be more honest in papers too. But I have lots of issues with the review system and the biggest is probably that no one wants to actually make any meaningful changes despite constant failure in the process and widespread frustration.

istjohn 2y ago
Yes. My dad cites the vaccilation of the science on whether or not eggs are healthy as the reason he places no trust in what scientists say. Of course, he is mistaking science reporting for the science itself, but he should be able to trust the media to accurately communicate the scientific consensus. It's one thing when we're talking about eggs or chocolate, but now he's skeptical of science reporting on global warming and COVID-19. And is that unreasonable? Why should he put a high credence in any science reporting going forward? He's a construction worker. He's not equiped to go read the journal articles for himself. Of course, we haven't even touched on the replication crisis, of which thankfully my dad is blissfully unaware.

ggm 2y ago

Another sign "big Carob" has taken over the health industry, pushing its "kids, it's healthier" lie. Chocolate, Wine and Cheese are the three vital food groups.

kagakuninja 2y ago
I can remember my mother giving me carob 50 years ago, because it is "healthier than chocolate". Never forget.
- ggm 2y ago
  My mum was at least honest: she said, "it's kind of like chocolate but not as nice" and I think that's fair.
xarope 2y ago
Surely you did not mean to miss out ice cream? Could Ice Cream Possibly Be Good For You? https://archive.is/quPv4 https://archive.is/quPv4 Disclaimer: I'm not a big wine drinker, but ice-cream here I come...
- ggm 2y ago
  You can make a fantastic "mud-slide" with cheap ice cream and premade custard, and of course vodka, kahlua and baileys. So yes, I will admit ice cream to the pantheon. If you go fancy-schmancy and get gelati then I'll even admit fruit, as long as it's a strawberry daquiri

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

Terr_ 2y ago

Relevant comic, "The Science News Cycle" https://phdcomics.com/comics.php?f=1174 https://phdcomics.com/comics.php?f=1174