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Right, the problem is we have been voting, donating, and protesting since occupy. I need things to change within the time that I am alive. If anything things ha

Right, the problem is we have been voting, donating, and protesting since occupy. I need things to change within the time that I am alive. If anything things have regressed, and some really strong feelings (I know this is strange to the beep boops of HN! It's so irrational!) are being expressed right now because people are at their end. Irrational is tens of thousands / hundreds of thousands over time of Americans losing the game over health issues. What I am getting at here, is if the model is to "let the unproductive ones die" then say so, and we can accelerate getting rid of insurance. If you're a turbo capitalist, then the real issue is price discovery, insurance companies create false price signal due to the variance in payouts and hospitals mask their pricing. We can blame both sides maybe, but it is clear insurance has some explaining to do before we completely eliminate them. They do not need a third boat. I need to keep my house. I will also anecdotally mention that NO ONE that I know is against Luigi. Not even once has someone said "well that guy had a wife and kids". It's not personal, it's not about him. In their view, it is a wakeup call because no amount of protesting, voting, and donating has gotten progress in the direction they want in their life time. Not even a sliver of a debate among about 5 different friend groups, 4 of which are not in tech.

ithkuil 2y ago
Your concerns and your rage are legitimate and I understand them. But you're also privileged to not be born and live in a country that has been torn by civil war. You're very lucky to live in a part of the world where however hard it's still possible to enact positive change in a civil and peaceful way. Don't throw that away. A violent society is not one that will bring the social justice that you seek. The public discourse in your country is highly divided and it's no wonder that yelling harder into each ones echo chamber is not achieving any effect. Adding gasoline and sparks to all that is not going to improve the situation but on the contrary its going to entrench the differences even more. A lot of progress has been achieved in the 70s via true peaceful movements. I don't know why that spirit no longer seems to resonate with people nowadays who just want to flush the baby with the bathwater. I have the sense that social media is key ingredient in that. The asymmetry of Brandolini's law makes it easy for trolls to drown any peaceful messages and algorithms amplify people's rage.
- DangitBobby 2y ago
  On the contrary, it's an issue that unites people who would otherwise be political adversaries. I think people in this thread desperately want there to be less support for Luigi's actions than there really is.
  - ithkuil 2y ago
    I think you can reach more people if you condemn violence and also condemn injustice. It's not a zero sum game. It's not either be with Luigi or be with healthcare CEOs. That's insane. Let's not fall into this trap. This mindset will necessarily reduce the reach and thus the possibilities for fixing the issue that's plaguing so many people.
    - DangitBobby 2y ago
      My mindset is that people are tired of the way shit is and are presently more open to violence-based solutions than others are comfortable with. It's a thing that happened, and I don't feel the need to advocate for an opinion, but I do feel a need to inform people that now is their chance to fix it before violence-based solutions are much more common.
- anarticle 2y ago
  Maybe a more concrete example: the peaceful process in the USA resulted in people toasting from a high rise over protestors. Corporations have essentially said "make me", knowing in "a legal process" they will win. Winning to them meaning: you sell your house, liquidate your retirement assets, lose your savings aka better luck next life. It is that bad in the USA right now, about half the people I know have had a medical bill issue in the five figures between 20-30yo, which stunted their economic growth aka no house, or kids. At least one with a six figure bill. Rip bro. There is no yelling, the fact is that a corporation can take my surplus at will if I fall off the tightrope here in the USA. That is an existential threat. The reason is so someone like UHC CEO can buy another car, or another boat. You may disagree, but remember, the people we are talking to live check to check or have less than 10k in the bank, working 40+ hours in a normal human job (aka not software). The discourse is divided on this in the news, but I assure you from corper to bar back in my town there is a sense of "well he had it coming" when understanding the context. Pretty sad right? A "make me" moment made manifest. The spirit does not resonate because culturally in USA, the peaceful movement is for suckers. Protesting? Suckers. Donating? Suckers. Voting? Also suckers. The end result is the exploiters win because they do not think they have to play, and nothing meaningful happens in your life time. They do not have to negotiate anything, they win via lobby, laws, money, power. Rage implies hysteria, righteous indignation is a much sharper description, and many people have this axe to grind either for personal or ethical reasons. Both things can be true, don't give me the war torn country reason. You're right that the peaceful system is better than the alternative, however when the peaceful system can economically destroy you, what is the difference?

ithkuil 2y ago

Your concerns and your rage are legitimate and I understand them. But you're also privileged to not be born and live in a country that has been torn by civil war. You're very lucky to live in a part of the world where however hard it's still possible to enact positive change in a civil and peaceful way. Don't throw that away. A violent society is not one that will bring the social justice that you seek. The public discourse in your country is highly divided and it's no wonder that yelling harder into each ones echo chamber is not achieving any effect. Adding gasoline and sparks to all that is not going to improve the situation but on the contrary its going to entrench the differences even more. A lot of progress has been achieved in the 70s via true peaceful movements. I don't know why that spirit no longer seems to resonate with people nowadays who just want to flush the baby with the bathwater. I have the sense that social media is key ingredient in that. The asymmetry of Brandolini's law makes it easy for trolls to drown any peaceful messages and algorithms amplify people's rage.

DangitBobby 2y ago
On the contrary, it's an issue that unites people who would otherwise be political adversaries. I think people in this thread desperately want there to be less support for Luigi's actions than there really is.
- ithkuil 2y ago
  I think you can reach more people if you condemn violence and also condemn injustice. It's not a zero sum game. It's not either be with Luigi or be with healthcare CEOs. That's insane. Let's not fall into this trap. This mindset will necessarily reduce the reach and thus the possibilities for fixing the issue that's plaguing so many people.
  - DangitBobby 2y ago
    My mindset is that people are tired of the way shit is and are presently more open to violence-based solutions than others are comfortable with. It's a thing that happened, and I don't feel the need to advocate for an opinion, but I do feel a need to inform people that now is their chance to fix it before violence-based solutions are much more common.
anarticle 2y ago
Maybe a more concrete example: the peaceful process in the USA resulted in people toasting from a high rise over protestors. Corporations have essentially said "make me", knowing in "a legal process" they will win. Winning to them meaning: you sell your house, liquidate your retirement assets, lose your savings aka better luck next life. It is that bad in the USA right now, about half the people I know have had a medical bill issue in the five figures between 20-30yo, which stunted their economic growth aka no house, or kids. At least one with a six figure bill. Rip bro. There is no yelling, the fact is that a corporation can take my surplus at will if I fall off the tightrope here in the USA. That is an existential threat. The reason is so someone like UHC CEO can buy another car, or another boat. You may disagree, but remember, the people we are talking to live check to check or have less than 10k in the bank, working 40+ hours in a normal human job (aka not software). The discourse is divided on this in the news, but I assure you from corper to bar back in my town there is a sense of "well he had it coming" when understanding the context. Pretty sad right? A "make me" moment made manifest. The spirit does not resonate because culturally in USA, the peaceful movement is for suckers. Protesting? Suckers. Donating? Suckers. Voting? Also suckers. The end result is the exploiters win because they do not think they have to play, and nothing meaningful happens in your life time. They do not have to negotiate anything, they win via lobby, laws, money, power. Rage implies hysteria, righteous indignation is a much sharper description, and many people have this axe to grind either for personal or ethical reasons. Both things can be true, don't give me the war torn country reason. You're right that the peaceful system is better than the alternative, however when the peaceful system can economically destroy you, what is the difference?