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As much as I’d love to not just use but daily Linux, unfortunately it’s nowhere close to Windows (and presumably MacOS) in user friendliness. Good design is dis

As much as I’d love to not just use but daily Linux, unfortunately it’s nowhere close to Windows (and presumably MacOS) in user friendliness. Good design is discoverable. A CLI unless well designed is not, a GUI with only buttons is (as you can keep clicking and navigating). I’m not saying all this to voice my personal issues with Linux (lots have already spoken about it). I’m saying this because I seriously doubt the general public would be able to use Linux as easily as windows unless they only use chrome all day long (which, to be fair, is a lot of people). When it’s easier to root an android phone than understand which version of files Fedora uses to edit the GRUB menu, it’s disappointing if you were rooting for Fedora, pun partially intended.

crespire 2y ago
> Good design is discoverable. I would argue that Windows design lineage here has conditioned us to accept what Microsoft gives us. Do you really think Windows has good design? There are three control panels in W11 for god's sake. I really think what you're getting at here is "familiar design is discoverable" - for a majority of users, the familiarity with Windows design is indeed a major driving factor. It's why Linux is scary, because it's unfamiliar. You can get a lot done on Linux desktop these days via GUI on the major distributions, terminal not required. Much like Windows. The boot experience is not as polished, and I think the pre-OS environment that Micorsoft has built up around Windows is excellent unlike *nix which is dealing with ramfs and GRUB, etc.
yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
Okay, maybe, but modern Linux doesn't need CLI any more than NT does. Install Ubuntu or Fedora, click the buttons, be happy.
- user_7832 2y ago
  That’s probably fine for someone who either doesn’t need to change settings, or has an “IT guy” who does everything for them. Unfortunately for me I’m the sort of person who likes tweaking and having a nice customized UI and whatnot. On windows you can change so much using GUI tools, or at most using the registry (which itself is a gui app). Linux, unfortunately not so much (many?) dice. To be clear and give it credit, Linux does allow a decent bit of things through buttons. But hit the slightest snag and it’s CLI time.
  - rmgk 2y ago
    If you managed to figure out how to edit the Windows registry, you probably would also be able to figure out how to edit config files on Linux. Navigating to the correct paths can be done in any GUI file explorer and there are plenty of GUI Text editors. Most config files are also much better at self documenting than any part of the Windows registry. I am not saying that you are wrong for liking what you like – it’s completely fine to be comfortable with the tools you are used to. I just think it’s not an argument for what type of person would be comfortable with Linux. I work in an environment all of Linux, macOS, and Windows are used (what ever the user prefers) and the people that „just want their Job done“ need an „IT person“ to figure out any configuration and complication for them independent of the OS used.
    - 573v14n7 2y ago
      People get used to using Windows and think that being used to something is the same as something being intuitive. Years ago (like 20) a previous girlfriend had never really used computers before and ended up adopting one of my old machines using KDE. After we broke up but remained friends, she complained about her new boyfriend subjecting her to XP and how nothing "worked like it should", needing to scour the web and download shit from random websites for software, every installer needing you to click next a dozen times, borderline malicious shovelware and how hard it was to get Windows to do things sensibly without scouring the web for hacks and having to edit one giant config file with a really overcomplicated editor. It's hard to tell the difference between bad UI and unfamiliar UI.
CrispyKerosene 2y ago
I dunno, Linux does what i tell it to do, where as i have to constantly fight Windows for really simple UI things that should be a given. For example, my windows explorer keeps opening at some where location and shape, no amount of tinkering under the hood has successfully made it open full screen all the time. Ubuntu on the other hand just keeps it at what ever i set it at, because of course it does. Little things like that are the only reason i switched the linux as a daily driver. I keep the windows partition active because there is no linux alternative for photoshop and lightroom.

crespire 2y ago

> Good design is discoverable. I would argue that Windows design lineage here has conditioned us to accept what Microsoft gives us. Do you really think Windows has good design? There are three control panels in W11 for god's sake. I really think what you're getting at here is "familiar design is discoverable" - for a majority of users, the familiarity with Windows design is indeed a major driving factor. It's why Linux is scary, because it's unfamiliar. You can get a lot done on Linux desktop these days via GUI on the major distributions, terminal not required. Much like Windows. The boot experience is not as polished, and I think the pre-OS environment that Micorsoft has built up around Windows is excellent unlike *nix which is dealing with ramfs and GRUB, etc.

yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago

Okay, maybe, but modern Linux doesn't need CLI any more than NT does. Install Ubuntu or Fedora, click the buttons, be happy.

user_7832 2y ago
That’s probably fine for someone who either doesn’t need to change settings, or has an “IT guy” who does everything for them. Unfortunately for me I’m the sort of person who likes tweaking and having a nice customized UI and whatnot. On windows you can change so much using GUI tools, or at most using the registry (which itself is a gui app). Linux, unfortunately not so much (many?) dice. To be clear and give it credit, Linux does allow a decent bit of things through buttons. But hit the slightest snag and it’s CLI time.
- rmgk 2y ago
  If you managed to figure out how to edit the Windows registry, you probably would also be able to figure out how to edit config files on Linux. Navigating to the correct paths can be done in any GUI file explorer and there are plenty of GUI Text editors. Most config files are also much better at self documenting than any part of the Windows registry. I am not saying that you are wrong for liking what you like – it’s completely fine to be comfortable with the tools you are used to. I just think it’s not an argument for what type of person would be comfortable with Linux. I work in an environment all of Linux, macOS, and Windows are used (what ever the user prefers) and the people that „just want their Job done“ need an „IT person“ to figure out any configuration and complication for them independent of the OS used.
  - 573v14n7 2y ago
    People get used to using Windows and think that being used to something is the same as something being intuitive. Years ago (like 20) a previous girlfriend had never really used computers before and ended up adopting one of my old machines using KDE. After we broke up but remained friends, she complained about her new boyfriend subjecting her to XP and how nothing "worked like it should", needing to scour the web and download shit from random websites for software, every installer needing you to click next a dozen times, borderline malicious shovelware and how hard it was to get Windows to do things sensibly without scouring the web for hacks and having to edit one giant config file with a really overcomplicated editor. It's hard to tell the difference between bad UI and unfamiliar UI.

CrispyKerosene 2y ago

I dunno, Linux does what i tell it to do, where as i have to constantly fight Windows for really simple UI things that should be a given. For example, my windows explorer keeps opening at some where location and shape, no amount of tinkering under the hood has successfully made it open full screen all the time. Ubuntu on the other hand just keeps it at what ever i set it at, because of course it does. Little things like that are the only reason i switched the linux as a daily driver. I keep the windows partition active because there is no linux alternative for photoshop and lightroom.