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> What people actually want does not impact the way in which our government functions, despite popular belief. The US just elected a president despite a years-

by imgabe 2y ago

> What people actually want does not impact the way in which our government functions, despite popular belief. The US just elected a president despite a years-long coordinated media and legal effort to make him disappear, along with multiple assassination attempts. So, yes, what the people want does actually matter. They just don't happen to want what you think they should want.

michaelsshaw 2y ago
And four years before that they elected a literal corpse because they were so sick of Donald Trump. And yet, somehow, the 2024 election was borderline the same. Did literally anyone want Trump v Biden v 2.0? No. Literally nobody wanted that. Did anyone actually want Kamala? No. Literally nobody wanted that. >coordinated media and legal effort to make him disappear Donald Trump is the most reported-on person of the past 10 years. This sentence does not make sense. >along with multiple assassination attempts You put this in the same sentence to make it seem like his "assassins" were on the same page as the media. They were not. Both of them were highly ineffective and downright cringey with their plans.
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  Yet one very nearly succeeded.
bagels 2y ago
How do you try to make someone disappear by talking about and showing video of them every day?
- imgabe 2y ago
  You talk about them as a "threat to democracy" in hopes some homicidal lunatic will take it to heart.
dqv 2y ago
> So, yes, what the people want does actually matter. No, it doesn't. Unless what they want aligns with what the ruling class and interest groups want. [0] The propaganda arm of the ruling class, of course, endeavors to get the public on their side precisely because violence ensues when they push too far without public buy-in. [0]: https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B/S1537592714001595a.pdf/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens.pdf https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/c...
- imgabe 2y ago
  Do you think the ruling class wanted Trump elected?
  - dqv 2y ago
    The ruling class isn't a monolith (see the linked study), but the consensus is yes: https://www.opensecrets.org/elections-overview/biggest-donors https://www.opensecrets.org/elections-overview/biggest-donor... https://americansfortaxfairness.org/billionaire-clans-spend-nearly-2-billion-2024-elections/ https://americansfortaxfairness.org/billionaire-clans-spend-... The ruling class used its propaganda arm to manufacture consent for "I don't like him as a person, but he's good for the economy". I imagine this also represents many of their own views on Trump: what they appear to support is not necessarily what they support. That is, they might very publicly and loudly say they don't like him, but they love to see their decreased tax payment come tax season. None of this is ideologically binary though. The ruling class is going to support whatever it thinks will allow it to continue to be the ruling class. They're not always in 100% agreement on what that is (or, at least, they want to have that appearance). If they aren't careful (and they haven't been as of late) and continue to whittle away at the populace's material conditions, it will lead to more violence, and possibly violent revolution.
xerox13ster 2y ago
I contend that The People don't know what they want

by imgabe 2y ago

michaelsshaw 2y ago

And four years before that they elected a literal corpse because they were so sick of Donald Trump. And yet, somehow, the 2024 election was borderline the same. Did literally anyone want Trump v Biden v 2.0? No. Literally nobody wanted that. Did anyone actually want Kamala? No. Literally nobody wanted that. >coordinated media and legal effort to make him disappear Donald Trump is the most reported-on person of the past 10 years. This sentence does not make sense. >along with multiple assassination attempts You put this in the same sentence to make it seem like his "assassins" were on the same page as the media. They were not. Both of them were highly ineffective and downright cringey with their plans.

throwaway48476 2y ago
Yet one very nearly succeeded.

bagels 2y ago

How do you try to make someone disappear by talking about and showing video of them every day?

imgabe 2y ago
You talk about them as a "threat to democracy" in hopes some homicidal lunatic will take it to heart.

dqv 2y ago

> So, yes, what the people want does actually matter. No, it doesn't. Unless what they want aligns with what the ruling class and interest groups want. [0] The propaganda arm of the ruling class, of course, endeavors to get the public on their side precisely because violence ensues when they push too far without public buy-in. [0]: https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B/S1537592714001595a.pdf/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens.pdf https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/c...

imgabe 2y ago
Do you think the ruling class wanted Trump elected?
- dqv 2y ago
  The ruling class isn't a monolith (see the linked study), but the consensus is yes: https://www.opensecrets.org/elections-overview/biggest-donors https://www.opensecrets.org/elections-overview/biggest-donor... https://americansfortaxfairness.org/billionaire-clans-spend-nearly-2-billion-2024-elections/ https://americansfortaxfairness.org/billionaire-clans-spend-... The ruling class used its propaganda arm to manufacture consent for "I don't like him as a person, but he's good for the economy". I imagine this also represents many of their own views on Trump: what they appear to support is not necessarily what they support. That is, they might very publicly and loudly say they don't like him, but they love to see their decreased tax payment come tax season. None of this is ideologically binary though. The ruling class is going to support whatever it thinks will allow it to continue to be the ruling class. They're not always in 100% agreement on what that is (or, at least, they want to have that appearance). If they aren't careful (and they haven't been as of late) and continue to whittle away at the populace's material conditions, it will lead to more violence, and possibly violent revolution.

xerox13ster 2y ago

I contend that The People don't know what they want