3 ms·

It's not mutually exclusive.

mustache_kimono 2y ago
Sure -- the two ends of the political horseshoe do seem to admire political violence more and more. But I'd take issue with "revered". Perhaps "revered" among the very liberal and very online, all of whom must certainly be mentally ill to revere political violence in the US in this climate. And to think what will rise from the ashes of lefty political violence will be a lefty utopia? Of course it will be fascism. Of course.
- gazunklenut 2y ago
  Yeah exatly, like when they murdererd poor old innocent Louis XVI
  - mustache_kimono 2y ago
    eye roll Please. Health care policy isn't war, isn't apartheid, isn't civil rights.
    - amatecha 2y ago
      Oh yeah, speaking of rights... "Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control." - https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-huma...
      - hulitu 2y ago
        > Oh yeah, speaking of rights... > "Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family ... This is only valid for Rusia, China and North Korea. Not for US. /s
      - imgabe 2y ago
        The UN isn't going to build you a house or grow you any food or really do anything. It doesn't matter what they say. I can write lots of pretty words about how everyone should have a pony and never be sad when I'm not responsible for making it happen.
        amatecha 2y ago
        It's a set of guidelines, not a set of promises from the UN. Countries/societies/communities are who implement policies and systems that support and correlate with these extremely-broadly-agreed-upon guidelines. My point is that health care is absolutely an element of rights (though perhaps categorized separately from _civil_ rights, though that's getting quite nitpicky).
        imgabe 2y ago
        I don't think the UN is the ultimate arbiter of what is or is not a right. Not that something being a "right" really means anything unless you have a way to enforce it.
        amatecha 2y ago
        At the time of this Universal Declaration of Human Rights being published, the UN had 54 member countries[0]. Not sure what organization in human history is better positioned to author such a declaration. Further, nitpicking around the definition of "rights", or who is worthy of declaring them has zero relevance to the point I'm making - that health care is traditionally an element of human rights policies and/or has a deep connection to the subject of human rights. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_the_United_Nations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_the_United_Na...
    - pm90 2y ago
      People die when they’re denied affordable healthcare. They see their loved ones be treated like shit by insurance companies. Its another form of extreme injustice to those who experience it, similar to war and civil rights.
    - gazunklenut 2y ago
      Health care policy isn't a civil rights issues? Don't you think thats jsut so ironic? It's not a civil rights issue in the USA and that is the exact problem. The healthcare system in America is completely dysfunctional. Countless people's lives are being ruined and lost. Corporations like UnitedHealthcare are intentionally perpetuating this. The leaders of these companies are conciously complicit in all of this. There are reforms being proposed constantly because of these incredibly predatory and exploitative Corporations, again conciously lead by these leaders. These Corporations and the people leading them are evil, they're exploiting innocent sick people for profit and they've managed to convince people like you that it's not a civil rights issue. That is the exact problem here.
    - immibis 2y ago
      Why do you think that?
- y_MAxY 2y ago
  Be careful with this horseshoe theory, as it's been around for more than a century without any real traction in academic research and in fact been very much contradicted by recent studies. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory
  - mustache_kimono 2y ago
    This has to be one of the goofiest nitpicks because remove the "horseshoe theory" language from above the point and the above point is the still the same. "Sure -- the two ends of the political spectrum do seem to admire political violence..."

Sure -- the two ends of the political horseshoe do seem to admire political violence more and more. But I'd take issue with "revered". Perhaps "revered" among the very liberal and very online, all of whom must certainly be mentally ill to revere political violence in the US in this climate. And to think what will rise from the ashes of lefty political violence will be a lefty utopia? Of course it will be fascism. Of course.

gazunklenut 2y ago
Yeah exatly, like when they murdererd poor old innocent Louis XVI
- mustache_kimono 2y ago
  eye roll Please. Health care policy isn't war, isn't apartheid, isn't civil rights.
  - amatecha 2y ago
    Oh yeah, speaking of rights... "Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control." - https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-huma...
    - hulitu 2y ago
      > Oh yeah, speaking of rights... > "Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family ... This is only valid for Rusia, China and North Korea. Not for US. /s
    - imgabe 2y ago
      The UN isn't going to build you a house or grow you any food or really do anything. It doesn't matter what they say. I can write lots of pretty words about how everyone should have a pony and never be sad when I'm not responsible for making it happen.
      - amatecha 2y ago
        It's a set of guidelines, not a set of promises from the UN. Countries/societies/communities are who implement policies and systems that support and correlate with these extremely-broadly-agreed-upon guidelines. My point is that health care is absolutely an element of rights (though perhaps categorized separately from _civil_ rights, though that's getting quite nitpicky).
        imgabe 2y ago
        I don't think the UN is the ultimate arbiter of what is or is not a right. Not that something being a "right" really means anything unless you have a way to enforce it.
        amatecha 2y ago
        At the time of this Universal Declaration of Human Rights being published, the UN had 54 member countries[0]. Not sure what organization in human history is better positioned to author such a declaration. Further, nitpicking around the definition of "rights", or who is worthy of declaring them has zero relevance to the point I'm making - that health care is traditionally an element of human rights policies and/or has a deep connection to the subject of human rights. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_the_United_Nations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_the_United_Na...
  - pm90 2y ago
    People die when they’re denied affordable healthcare. They see their loved ones be treated like shit by insurance companies. Its another form of extreme injustice to those who experience it, similar to war and civil rights.
  - gazunklenut 2y ago
    Health care policy isn't a civil rights issues? Don't you think thats jsut so ironic? It's not a civil rights issue in the USA and that is the exact problem. The healthcare system in America is completely dysfunctional. Countless people's lives are being ruined and lost. Corporations like UnitedHealthcare are intentionally perpetuating this. The leaders of these companies are conciously complicit in all of this. There are reforms being proposed constantly because of these incredibly predatory and exploitative Corporations, again conciously lead by these leaders. These Corporations and the people leading them are evil, they're exploiting innocent sick people for profit and they've managed to convince people like you that it's not a civil rights issue. That is the exact problem here.
  - immibis 2y ago
    Why do you think that?
y_MAxY 2y ago
Be careful with this horseshoe theory, as it's been around for more than a century without any real traction in academic research and in fact been very much contradicted by recent studies. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory
- mustache_kimono 2y ago
  This has to be one of the goofiest nitpicks because remove the "horseshoe theory" language from above the point and the above point is the still the same. "Sure -- the two ends of the political spectrum do seem to admire political violence..."