3 ms·

In Toronto the decline of the scene in the late '90s was accelerated significantly when the city clamped down on promotors by restricting them from renting venu

by bcrl 2y ago

In Toronto the decline of the scene in the late '90s was accelerated significantly when the city clamped down on promotors by restricting them from renting venues on city owned property. This was after gradually requiring EMTs and increased security at events after Allen Ho died in 1999. There was a huge protest at city hall, but that had no impact on the course of things. Combined with the recession and then SARS in 2003, people effectively stopped going out to larger events, although people getting older with more obligations was certainly a contributing factor as well. However, there are still family friendly events held at Cherry Beach in the summer with people from the scene back then going on every year.

stefs 2y ago
"although people getting older with more obligations was certainly a contributing factor as well" there's always the next generation of young people. the question is: why aren't they as interested in raves than the generations before them?
- ghaff 2y ago
  The utterly lazy and unsatisfactory answer is that generations change. You mostly don't have bowling leagues or halls for groups like the Knights of Columbus any longer either. Now you can point to various societal changes that affect all those things but it's probably rarely one single answer.
  - colinwilyb 2y ago
    In Toronto regulations were put in place required coordinating with Police, Fire, Ambulance, and submitting applications to use ANY private space for an intended "rave party". The spontaneity of gathering your friends to dance on the beach, use a private warehouse after hours, or host a house party that went past 2AM, was now risking police showing up and handing out fines. Regulation is the fastest way to kill anything unique and valuable. [EDIT: Found a report for City Council recommendations related to this. It's a dull read, but historically facinating if you were around back then. https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/2000/agendas/council/cc/cc000801/cms7rpt/cl001.pdf https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/2000/agendas/council/cc/cc000... ]
    - ghaff 2y ago
      Whether or not I totally agree with your comment, I do tend to agree that there's been a general trend towards greater oversight over a lot of activities in a lot of contexts. I have some visibility into activities at a couple of universities and there is certainly not the degree of free rein as when I went to school.
    - bcrl 2y ago
      There were still underground events held in parks and other unofficial spaces after the regulations came in; I attended a number of small events by Moonshadow and others. Black Light Activists kept going with a regular dose of psytrance, and the monthly Darkrave event at the Big Bop continued until 2010. Long gone are the exceptional raves like the ones held at the Ontario Science Centre which had staff manning the displays from 10pm until we were kicked out via the loading docks at 6am on Sunday morning... There's nothing quite like being 1 of ~6000 people on astroturf at a hanger in the Downsview airport watching the sun coming up at 4-5am on a warm summer night to a great morning trance set!
- gopher_space 2y ago
  The question is probably more like why aren't we being invited to their parties. Word of mouth was cool back in '85. How much cooler is it post-internet? I wonder where they're finding the space now that all the old warehouses are worth a mint.
- randomfounder 2y ago
  I’m somewhat deep in the rave scene, and a lot of my friends are pretty hardcore about it. It still exists, and people are more interested than ever (look at the growth of festivals and rave-adjacent events). There are regular illegal raves in every major city in California, >6 most weekends in San Francisco. But due to regulation and increased interest from the “wrong people”, they’re really hidden.
colinwilyb 2y ago
The protest/rally at Toronto City Hall in 2000 was a one-of-a-kind event which united ravers across the city. Organizers set up a mobile stage with sound and lights, had DJ lineup, speeches by public figures (including Olivia Chow), and 10k+ ravers. Party People Documentary: Part 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUqlAUh4_3c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUqlAUh4_3c Party People Documentary: Part 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQZAwIHhOnc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQZAwIHhOnc

by bcrl 2y ago

stefs 2y ago

"although people getting older with more obligations was certainly a contributing factor as well" there's always the next generation of young people. the question is: why aren't they as interested in raves than the generations before them?

ghaff 2y ago
The utterly lazy and unsatisfactory answer is that generations change. You mostly don't have bowling leagues or halls for groups like the Knights of Columbus any longer either. Now you can point to various societal changes that affect all those things but it's probably rarely one single answer.
- colinwilyb 2y ago
  In Toronto regulations were put in place required coordinating with Police, Fire, Ambulance, and submitting applications to use ANY private space for an intended "rave party". The spontaneity of gathering your friends to dance on the beach, use a private warehouse after hours, or host a house party that went past 2AM, was now risking police showing up and handing out fines. Regulation is the fastest way to kill anything unique and valuable. [EDIT: Found a report for City Council recommendations related to this. It's a dull read, but historically facinating if you were around back then. https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/2000/agendas/council/cc/cc000801/cms7rpt/cl001.pdf https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/2000/agendas/council/cc/cc000... ]
  - ghaff 2y ago
    Whether or not I totally agree with your comment, I do tend to agree that there's been a general trend towards greater oversight over a lot of activities in a lot of contexts. I have some visibility into activities at a couple of universities and there is certainly not the degree of free rein as when I went to school.
  - bcrl 2y ago
    There were still underground events held in parks and other unofficial spaces after the regulations came in; I attended a number of small events by Moonshadow and others. Black Light Activists kept going with a regular dose of psytrance, and the monthly Darkrave event at the Big Bop continued until 2010. Long gone are the exceptional raves like the ones held at the Ontario Science Centre which had staff manning the displays from 10pm until we were kicked out via the loading docks at 6am on Sunday morning... There's nothing quite like being 1 of ~6000 people on astroturf at a hanger in the Downsview airport watching the sun coming up at 4-5am on a warm summer night to a great morning trance set!
gopher_space 2y ago
The question is probably more like why aren't we being invited to their parties. Word of mouth was cool back in '85. How much cooler is it post-internet? I wonder where they're finding the space now that all the old warehouses are worth a mint.
randomfounder 2y ago
I’m somewhat deep in the rave scene, and a lot of my friends are pretty hardcore about it. It still exists, and people are more interested than ever (look at the growth of festivals and rave-adjacent events). There are regular illegal raves in every major city in California, >6 most weekends in San Francisco. But due to regulation and increased interest from the “wrong people”, they’re really hidden.

colinwilyb 2y ago

The protest/rally at Toronto City Hall in 2000 was a one-of-a-kind event which united ravers across the city. Organizers set up a mobile stage with sound and lights, had DJ lineup, speeches by public figures (including Olivia Chow), and 10k+ ravers. Party People Documentary: Part 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUqlAUh4_3c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUqlAUh4_3c Party People Documentary: Part 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQZAwIHhOnc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQZAwIHhOnc