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Why are the cows taken away from the calves, especially dairy cows? Just curious.
by bamboozled 2y ago
Why are the cows taken away from the calves, especially dairy cows? Just curious.
- rafaelmn 2y agoBecause you want to get the milk.
- cowfriend 2y agoAlmost this. The better answer is because we want to get ALL the milk. So instead of letting the mother cow nurse her calf for the first few months and then start taking her milk for our use, the more "modern" practice is to separate the calf immediately. Which means if you are drinking milk, you are drinking it from seriously depressed cows. I wonder how this contributes to our culture's growing mood of depression? see i.e. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jun/29/mums-ask-when-cows-and-their-calves-separated-rise-ethical-milk-vegan https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jun/29/mums-ask... or just google dairy cows separate from calves
- csomar 2y agoThe real crime is that alternatives are expensive due to how our new economy is structured. I personally prefer oatmilk (oatside) to dairy milk. However, it’s too damn expensive that I find myself only drinking it from time to time. Now how is a vegetarian milk more expensive than a full cycle of cow milk (cows are too burdening to maintain) you might ask?!? My guess is that we are seeing something along the lines of EVs. Instead of making these healthier alternatives mainstream, they are being sold as a status symbol for the rich and making them unaffordable to the common man. Here waiting for my chinese oat milk.
- vasco 2y ago> Now how is a vegetarian milk more expensive than a full cycle of cow milk (cows are too burdening to maintain) you might ask?!? Not enough scale because little demand compared to regular milk.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- ValentineC 2y agoWhat's baffling is that the supply chain for non-dairy milk is so much simpler, since all non-dairy milk can be packaged as UHT which doesn't need any form of refrigeration until open.
- spondylosaurus 2y agoI don't think non-dairy milks are artificially expensive so much as cow milk is artificially cheap. At least in the US. Federal dairy subsidies and all that.
- ValentineC 2y agoOat/almond milk suppliers are definitely pricing them artificially expensive. Here in Singapore, where soy milk has been around for decades, soy milk in both fresh and UHT forms tend to be much cheaper than dairy.
- spondylosaurus 2y agoIf Singapore doesn't have dairy subsidies and/or imports a lot of dairy... that's probably why. You're paying the "real" price while US consumers are paying the "discount" price. Also, soy milk's been around for decades in the US too! I drank a lot as a kid. My mom would keep these little single-serving cartons in her purse for us, like juicebox-sized.
- dotancohen 2y agoHow much does 1 liter of almond or oat milk substitute cost in Singapore? How much does one liter of milk cost?
- Daub 2y agoIt might be a demand issue. In Singapore a lot of people are lactose intolerant, hence the demand for dairy substitutes is greater.
- ZeroGravitas 2y agoSo still a near perfect metaphor for EV Vs ICE. I actually thought this is what they meant at first.
- bythreads 2y agoMilk is a byproduct of producing meat, and its a fallacy to see it in isolation. Plantmilks are firstorder product. This means that clinate impact of most plantmilks are higher than milks, excepting oat and ryemilk. On a cost note - : making oat milk is literally just blending some oats and let them soak a day or 2, filter the water and done, perhaps do that if cost is an issue? On a sidenote, if you drink soy, almond or worse ricemilk you're actually doing something worse for the climate/environment
- mulmen 2y agoTheir margin is your opportunity. If you think oat milk is overpriced then simply start making and selling it at a lower price.
- aziaziazi 2y agoDo It Yourself! You can beat milk price: You already got the oat. Got a blender? Grind those little flakes with water and a spoon of your favorite oil. Et voilà ! Pro tips: - filter for extra smoothness but no need if you intent to mix with whole oat flakes - 1h in the fridge and mix again for double extra smoothness - pinch of salt or cinnamon or cacao… yummi - bored of oat? Check your supermarket shelf for other ideas. (Soy need to be cooked then blend then filter).
- bamboozled 2y agoDoesn't milk contain protein ? Do oats contain the same amount of protein?
- aziaziazi 2y agoQuick search says milk contains twice protein as oat milk, and moreover more complete one. However for protein intake I would recommend soy products that are super healthy, cheap and contains fibers. The only plant milk I drink is a dip in my morning beverage and for cooking cakes. But if you’re protein intake comes substantially from milk, indeed you should consider that.
- maeil 2y agoAs mentioned, the subsidies are the biggest player. What you mentioned does probably play a role as well, with much more $/revenue being spent on marketing for non-animal milk than cow milk. None of the big milk players are trying to present themselves as a hip startup like Oatly is. Wouldn't be surprised if the latter was even VC backed. But again, good ole' communist subsidies are the number one cause.
- sbmthakur 2y agoBack in my ancestral village the practice was to let cow nurse her calf and get the remaining for the owner's family. This kinda ensured co-existence. The modern dairy industry has all evil practices baked into its operations. It is the thing that keeps me from going vegetarian. Even with going off meat, I would still harm the livestock by consuming dairy. A lot of vegetarians (at least those who virtue signal) do not understand this.
- aziaziazi 2y agoOne way to reduce that practice is to simply reduce one consumption of meat/milk, no need to be fully gandhi to improve some cow’s life. You anyway can’t save the world alone. There’s a ton of mushrooms and fabaceae, very cheap nutritious and as much delicious if you learn to cook them well (like meat). My favorite is Tempeh which combine both! And quite cheap if you make it yourself. http://tempeh.info/ http://tempeh.info/
- bamboozled 2y agoI like the stuff, but interestingly, I found it easiest to buy in Indonesia, Australia and the USA. Outside of that, it's hard to get or very expensive.
- ornornor 2y agoYou can make your own! It’s deleicious and very cheap if you make it yourself.
- maeil 2y agoPlenty of tofu dishes in Korea and part of China. Almost never vegan, but often vegetarian.
- lotsofpulp 2y agoIn the US, almost every broth or dish at an East/southeast restaurant uses shrimp/fish sauce or other animal product like beef/chicken stock. They usually prep it in advance, so it’s rare to find one that has an actually vegan dish they don’t custom make even if it says tofu.
- doublerabbit 2y agoVeal.
- ornornor 2y agoThat’s how we get all their milk, how we get meat (the calf isn’t kept around for more than a few weeks/months), and rennet to make cheese (it’s the digestion liquid that’s in their stomach while they eat milk, must kill the animal to extract it) Same with eggs, they don’t exist in a vacuum. To get eggs you have to have chickens, and to have chickens you must grind male chicks alive as they hatch because they don’t produce eggs. And hens aren’t supposed make eggs year round but we make them anyway with artificial lights etc, which drastically shortens their lifespan.
- voisin 2y ago> And hens aren’t supposed make eggs year round but we make them anyway with artificial lights etc, which drastically shortens their lifespan. I kept a flock of 25-30 hens on my property for a few years. Other than moulting they produce eggs ease round. The production slows drastically in the dark winter months for the older hens (1 for 3 days, say) but some continue to produce nearly daily (I think the cycle is something like 26-28 hours). The only time we had artificial light for them was on days when it was so cold we kept their coop door shut and turned on the interior light.
- whimsicalism 2y agothe way eggs are industrially farmed is generally not like this
- s1artibartfast 2y agoI think they are addressing the claim "hens aren’t supposed make eggs year round"
- throwaway_5633 2y agoWorse I’m afraid, chickens will give most eggs in their first year and are killed after, because they become unprofitable. I know an ecological farmer that charges a bit more for eggs and is able to keep them alive for 2 years, but that’s the max. They can easily live for 10 years plus.
- addicted 2y agoWhy would the calves be kept near the cows? They’re not gonna feed the milk that their mothers are producing for them, because that would mean less milk to sell and less milk for people to consume. And so why keep the calves in the milking side of the facility when you can move them to the fattening side for meat/leather or to get them to age so you can forcibly impregnate them every year for their milk, depending on their gender.