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Their ultimate agent product strategy feels like reducing cost of sales... by automating salespeople. I have doubts that will ever happen, but who knows? Sale

by ethbr1 2y ago

Their ultimate agent product strategy feels like reducing cost of sales... by automating salespeople. I have doubts that will ever happen, but who knows? Sales folks are highly-compensated, so even making a few of them redundant (or making existing salespeople more efficient) would be a big win for companies (Salesforce's customers).

cyanydeez 2y ago
There's probably space for AI secretaries to screen contacts and to drop AI sales.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
PaulHoule 2y ago
Compensated proportional to the revenue they bring in close to the time they bring it in. (Operations cost) Very different from the software dev who gets paid today for revenue that might come in in two years. (Capital cost) The average person has no idea of how capital sees the world. A worker feels resentful if they get paid less per hour of input, a capitalist feels resentful when they get paid less per dollar of investment. The Marxist viewpoint that they conflict directly is quite wrong: operations costs can be passed on to the consumer, but a capitalist is going to have to negotiate with their investors if they are having trouble with the bang/buck ratio of their investments. (I'd had a job go really badly. A friend of mine said my problem was "I was only getting paid a fraction of the value that I create", I said "I tried getting paid more than the value I created and it ended in tears")
- wbl 2y ago
  Why do people think costs can get passed on? They can't be. Pricing is about supply elasticity and demand elasticity. Sometimes you just need to eat costs because of the competition.
  - PaulHoule 2y ago
    Often though the competition is facing the same pressure. Or there is no competition. My trainer at the gym introduced me to https://patents.google.com/patent/US10245460B2/en?oq=10245460 https://patents.google.com/patent/US10245460B2/en?oq=1024546... which sells for about $250 (worth it if you really use it.) My first instinct is that this product ought to be available for $25 on Temu if there wasn't a patent but I know from experience that if I talked to folks at TRX they'd have a good explanation of why my number is low. (e.g. TRX is in a position to pass costs on)
    - downrightmike 2y ago
      I got one of those from walmart in like 2018 for like $20, still going strong
      - PaulHoule 2y ago
        TRX won a lawsuit and you can't get one from Wal-Mart today https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/trx-obtains-federal-court-order-validating-patents-and-trademarks-for-its-market-leading-suspension-trainer-300976729.html https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/trx-obtains-federal...
        hedora 2y ago
        These are between $20 and $250, but having many different band resistance levels is useful: https://gofit.net/collections/resistance-tubes-bands https://gofit.net/collections/resistance-tubes-bands There are plenty of cheaper no-name options on Amazon, but they have the property that the handles snap off during use, risking injury.
        PaulHoule 2y ago
        TRX is a rigid band that doesn't stretch. You set the "resistance" by the angle of gravity relative to the band. A TRX push-up puts less load on the primary path than a conventional push up but is very challenging to all the other muscles that it takes to not flop over when you do it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNuZWO0if5o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNuZWO0if5o These days I'd trust AMZN less than Temu. At least Temu and sellers on Temu still want to win your trust. AMZN thinks they have it and will still think they have it long after it's lost.
- zeckalpha 2y ago
  The investors are the capitalists. The C suite negotiator is petit bourgeoisie.
- indymike 2y ago
  This is less about Marxist/capitalist and more about a change in regulation in the US that makes R&D expenses (dev headcount) amortized over five years (for taxes) versus sales being a straight-up expense. This one is going to be good for the stock price, and the AI Agent angle is a marketing masterpiece.
  - PaulHoule 2y ago
    It's a good point about changes in tax laws for software devs. Makes me glad I work for a non-profit (a rare non-pathological non-profit no less!) For all the discussion about a soft job market for devs, the fact that the last Trump administration made a tax change that puts a target on our backs comes up rarely but it is part of the explanation.
    - indymike 2y ago
      The chance happened in 2023.
dartos 2y ago
I think a lot of CEO were sales people. Being in that field, they can see where LLMs would fail at it. They can understand that you can’t just replace a sales team with LLMs. They don’t have that for engineering…
- bni 2y ago
  Im an engineer. I see no reason why LLMs shouldn't already today replace most people in sales /s
mensetmanusman 2y ago
Customers will install agent interaction prevention agents to prevent the infinite onslaught. Sales will still happen with dinner and handshakes.
astine 2y ago
Salespeople are typically compensated based on commissions. At least the well compensated ones are. Automation can make things easier and streamline the sales process, but because the sales rep is paid a percentage of the GP of a sale, automation doesn't really their take.
- ethbr1 2y ago
  The company still pays that commission. If the company instead kept that money, it would be more profitable (or could lower the price of its product). We can get into the nuances of advantageous tax treatment or not, but sales commissions come from somewhere and are essentially transaction costs.

by ethbr1 2y ago

cyanydeez 2y ago

There's probably space for AI secretaries to screen contacts and to drop AI sales.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

PaulHoule 2y ago

Compensated proportional to the revenue they bring in close to the time they bring it in. (Operations cost) Very different from the software dev who gets paid today for revenue that might come in in two years. (Capital cost) The average person has no idea of how capital sees the world. A worker feels resentful if they get paid less per hour of input, a capitalist feels resentful when they get paid less per dollar of investment. The Marxist viewpoint that they conflict directly is quite wrong: operations costs can be passed on to the consumer, but a capitalist is going to have to negotiate with their investors if they are having trouble with the bang/buck ratio of their investments. (I'd had a job go really badly. A friend of mine said my problem was "I was only getting paid a fraction of the value that I create", I said "I tried getting paid more than the value I created and it ended in tears")

wbl 2y ago
Why do people think costs can get passed on? They can't be. Pricing is about supply elasticity and demand elasticity. Sometimes you just need to eat costs because of the competition.
- PaulHoule 2y ago
  Often though the competition is facing the same pressure. Or there is no competition. My trainer at the gym introduced me to https://patents.google.com/patent/US10245460B2/en?oq=10245460 https://patents.google.com/patent/US10245460B2/en?oq=1024546... which sells for about $250 (worth it if you really use it.) My first instinct is that this product ought to be available for $25 on Temu if there wasn't a patent but I know from experience that if I talked to folks at TRX they'd have a good explanation of why my number is low. (e.g. TRX is in a position to pass costs on)
  - downrightmike 2y ago
    I got one of those from walmart in like 2018 for like $20, still going strong
    - PaulHoule 2y ago
      TRX won a lawsuit and you can't get one from Wal-Mart today https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/trx-obtains-federal-court-order-validating-patents-and-trademarks-for-its-market-leading-suspension-trainer-300976729.html https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/trx-obtains-federal...
      - hedora 2y ago
        These are between $20 and $250, but having many different band resistance levels is useful: https://gofit.net/collections/resistance-tubes-bands https://gofit.net/collections/resistance-tubes-bands There are plenty of cheaper no-name options on Amazon, but they have the property that the handles snap off during use, risking injury.
        PaulHoule 2y ago
        TRX is a rigid band that doesn't stretch. You set the "resistance" by the angle of gravity relative to the band. A TRX push-up puts less load on the primary path than a conventional push up but is very challenging to all the other muscles that it takes to not flop over when you do it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNuZWO0if5o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNuZWO0if5o These days I'd trust AMZN less than Temu. At least Temu and sellers on Temu still want to win your trust. AMZN thinks they have it and will still think they have it long after it's lost.
zeckalpha 2y ago
The investors are the capitalists. The C suite negotiator is petit bourgeoisie.
indymike 2y ago
This is less about Marxist/capitalist and more about a change in regulation in the US that makes R&D expenses (dev headcount) amortized over five years (for taxes) versus sales being a straight-up expense. This one is going to be good for the stock price, and the AI Agent angle is a marketing masterpiece.
- PaulHoule 2y ago
  It's a good point about changes in tax laws for software devs. Makes me glad I work for a non-profit (a rare non-pathological non-profit no less!) For all the discussion about a soft job market for devs, the fact that the last Trump administration made a tax change that puts a target on our backs comes up rarely but it is part of the explanation.
  - indymike 2y ago
    The chance happened in 2023.

dartos 2y ago

I think a lot of CEO were sales people. Being in that field, they can see where LLMs would fail at it. They can understand that you can’t just replace a sales team with LLMs. They don’t have that for engineering…

bni 2y ago
Im an engineer. I see no reason why LLMs shouldn't already today replace most people in sales /s

mensetmanusman 2y ago

Customers will install agent interaction prevention agents to prevent the infinite onslaught. Sales will still happen with dinner and handshakes.

astine 2y ago

Salespeople are typically compensated based on commissions. At least the well compensated ones are. Automation can make things easier and streamline the sales process, but because the sales rep is paid a percentage of the GP of a sale, automation doesn't really their take.

ethbr1 2y ago
The company still pays that commission. If the company instead kept that money, it would be more profitable (or could lower the price of its product). We can get into the nuances of advantageous tax treatment or not, but sales commissions come from somewhere and are essentially transaction costs.