5 ms·

Looks like it. The only other explanation is they just stopped investing in other products and focused on Agents, thus no need for loads more of engineering. N

Looks like it. The only other explanation is they just stopped investing in other products and focused on Agents, thus no need for loads more of engineering. No way in the world they got 30% gains. 5 maybe realistically

ethbr1 2y ago
Their ultimate agent product strategy feels like reducing cost of sales... by automating salespeople. I have doubts that will ever happen, but who knows? Sales folks are highly-compensated, so even making a few of them redundant (or making existing salespeople more efficient) would be a big win for companies (Salesforce's customers).
- cyanydeez 2y ago
  There's probably space for AI secretaries to screen contacts and to drop AI sales.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- PaulHoule 2y ago
  Compensated proportional to the revenue they bring in close to the time they bring it in. (Operations cost) Very different from the software dev who gets paid today for revenue that might come in in two years. (Capital cost) The average person has no idea of how capital sees the world. A worker feels resentful if they get paid less per hour of input, a capitalist feels resentful when they get paid less per dollar of investment. The Marxist viewpoint that they conflict directly is quite wrong: operations costs can be passed on to the consumer, but a capitalist is going to have to negotiate with their investors if they are having trouble with the bang/buck ratio of their investments. (I'd had a job go really badly. A friend of mine said my problem was "I was only getting paid a fraction of the value that I create", I said "I tried getting paid more than the value I created and it ended in tears")
  - wbl 2y ago
    Why do people think costs can get passed on? They can't be. Pricing is about supply elasticity and demand elasticity. Sometimes you just need to eat costs because of the competition.
    - PaulHoule 2y ago
      Often though the competition is facing the same pressure. Or there is no competition. My trainer at the gym introduced me to https://patents.google.com/patent/US10245460B2/en?oq=10245460 https://patents.google.com/patent/US10245460B2/en?oq=1024546... which sells for about $250 (worth it if you really use it.) My first instinct is that this product ought to be available for $25 on Temu if there wasn't a patent but I know from experience that if I talked to folks at TRX they'd have a good explanation of why my number is low. (e.g. TRX is in a position to pass costs on)
      - downrightmike 2y ago
        I got one of those from walmart in like 2018 for like $20, still going strong
        PaulHoule 2y ago
        TRX won a lawsuit and you can't get one from Wal-Mart today https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/trx-obtains-federal-court-order-validating-patents-and-trademarks-for-its-market-leading-suspension-trainer-300976729.html https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/trx-obtains-federal...
        hedora 2y ago
        These are between $20 and $250, but having many different band resistance levels is useful: https://gofit.net/collections/resistance-tubes-bands https://gofit.net/collections/resistance-tubes-bands There are plenty of cheaper no-name options on Amazon, but they have the property that the handles snap off during use, risking injury.
- dartos 2y ago
  I think a lot of CEO were sales people. Being in that field, they can see where LLMs would fail at it. They can understand that you can’t just replace a sales team with LLMs. They don’t have that for engineering…
  - bni 2y ago
    Im an engineer. I see no reason why LLMs shouldn't already today replace most people in sales /s
- mensetmanusman 2y ago
  Customers will install agent interaction prevention agents to prevent the infinite onslaught. Sales will still happen with dinner and handshakes.
- astine 2y ago
  Salespeople are typically compensated based on commissions. At least the well compensated ones are. Automation can make things easier and streamline the sales process, but because the sales rep is paid a percentage of the GP of a sale, automation doesn't really their take.
  - ethbr1 2y ago
    The company still pays that commission. If the company instead kept that money, it would be more profitable (or could lower the price of its product). We can get into the nuances of advantageous tax treatment or not, but sales commissions come from somewhere and are essentially transaction costs.
mrayycombi 2y ago
Indeed, it's marketing slop as a pretense for a hiring freeze.
area51org 2y ago
This kind of smokescreen only works for so long. Once it all starts failing and profits dip, things will change.
xarope 2y ago
I recently had a refreshing conversation with a bank VP (head of AI), he said yes, they do see 30-40% improvement in "some" processes, so overall maybe 0.5-1% improvement. So I'm betting they got 30% gains in e.g. "OCRing" and quote that, ignoring that the OCR part is 1% of an entire process chain.
- c0redump 2y ago
  Does OCR refer here to “optical character recognition”?
  - xarope 2y ago
    Yes. Just using that as an example where "AI" (not the hyped up LLMs) has really helped.

ethbr1 2y ago

Their ultimate agent product strategy feels like reducing cost of sales... by automating salespeople. I have doubts that will ever happen, but who knows? Sales folks are highly-compensated, so even making a few of them redundant (or making existing salespeople more efficient) would be a big win for companies (Salesforce's customers).

cyanydeez 2y ago
There's probably space for AI secretaries to screen contacts and to drop AI sales.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
PaulHoule 2y ago
Compensated proportional to the revenue they bring in close to the time they bring it in. (Operations cost) Very different from the software dev who gets paid today for revenue that might come in in two years. (Capital cost) The average person has no idea of how capital sees the world. A worker feels resentful if they get paid less per hour of input, a capitalist feels resentful when they get paid less per dollar of investment. The Marxist viewpoint that they conflict directly is quite wrong: operations costs can be passed on to the consumer, but a capitalist is going to have to negotiate with their investors if they are having trouble with the bang/buck ratio of their investments. (I'd had a job go really badly. A friend of mine said my problem was "I was only getting paid a fraction of the value that I create", I said "I tried getting paid more than the value I created and it ended in tears")
- wbl 2y ago
  Why do people think costs can get passed on? They can't be. Pricing is about supply elasticity and demand elasticity. Sometimes you just need to eat costs because of the competition.
  - PaulHoule 2y ago
    Often though the competition is facing the same pressure. Or there is no competition. My trainer at the gym introduced me to https://patents.google.com/patent/US10245460B2/en?oq=10245460 https://patents.google.com/patent/US10245460B2/en?oq=1024546... which sells for about $250 (worth it if you really use it.) My first instinct is that this product ought to be available for $25 on Temu if there wasn't a patent but I know from experience that if I talked to folks at TRX they'd have a good explanation of why my number is low. (e.g. TRX is in a position to pass costs on)
    - downrightmike 2y ago
      I got one of those from walmart in like 2018 for like $20, still going strong
      - PaulHoule 2y ago
        TRX won a lawsuit and you can't get one from Wal-Mart today https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/trx-obtains-federal-court-order-validating-patents-and-trademarks-for-its-market-leading-suspension-trainer-300976729.html https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/trx-obtains-federal...
        hedora 2y ago
        These are between $20 and $250, but having many different band resistance levels is useful: https://gofit.net/collections/resistance-tubes-bands https://gofit.net/collections/resistance-tubes-bands There are plenty of cheaper no-name options on Amazon, but they have the property that the handles snap off during use, risking injury.
dartos 2y ago
I think a lot of CEO were sales people. Being in that field, they can see where LLMs would fail at it. They can understand that you can’t just replace a sales team with LLMs. They don’t have that for engineering…
- bni 2y ago
  Im an engineer. I see no reason why LLMs shouldn't already today replace most people in sales /s
mensetmanusman 2y ago
Customers will install agent interaction prevention agents to prevent the infinite onslaught. Sales will still happen with dinner and handshakes.
astine 2y ago
Salespeople are typically compensated based on commissions. At least the well compensated ones are. Automation can make things easier and streamline the sales process, but because the sales rep is paid a percentage of the GP of a sale, automation doesn't really their take.
- ethbr1 2y ago
  The company still pays that commission. If the company instead kept that money, it would be more profitable (or could lower the price of its product). We can get into the nuances of advantageous tax treatment or not, but sales commissions come from somewhere and are essentially transaction costs.

mrayycombi 2y ago

Indeed, it's marketing slop as a pretense for a hiring freeze.

area51org 2y ago

This kind of smokescreen only works for so long. Once it all starts failing and profits dip, things will change.

xarope 2y ago

I recently had a refreshing conversation with a bank VP (head of AI), he said yes, they do see 30-40% improvement in "some" processes, so overall maybe 0.5-1% improvement. So I'm betting they got 30% gains in e.g. "OCRing" and quote that, ignoring that the OCR part is 1% of an entire process chain.

c0redump 2y ago
Does OCR refer here to “optical character recognition”?
- xarope 2y ago
  Yes. Just using that as an example where "AI" (not the hyped up LLMs) has really helped.