5 ms·

> by a skeleton crew of remaining fire fighters and volunteers. I think you're missing a major contributor which is California's prison population [0]. Prisone

> by a skeleton crew of remaining fire fighters and volunteers. I think you're missing a major contributor which is California's prison population [0]. Prisoners getting paid around $3-$5 a day make up ~1/3 of California's wildfire fighting service. Maybe you consider them to be "volunteers" but that seems to be missing some important context. 0. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-history-of-californias-inmate-firefighter-program-180980662/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-history-of-califo...

rvnx 2y ago
(Very interesting info you found!) It seems to be a great way to reengage in the community and feel useful as a human being (and see people being grateful to you). Not so sure the $5 are the driver here. Better than watching a cellmate all day.
- giraffe_lady 2y ago
  I wonder if they have favorable consideration when applying to fire departments after they get out.
  - rurp 2y ago
    It's often the opposite, where their conviction bars them from even applying for a job.
  - Roguelazer 2y ago
    As I understand it, no. Most counties require that you have an EMT license to be a firefighter, and many people with conviction histories are barred from getting EMT licenses (Title 22 § 100214.3(c)). There was a bill a few years ago that allowed CalFire specifically to hire people as firefighters with an alternate credential that doesn't have a blanket-ban on people with conviction histories.
- timewizard 2y ago
  > Not so sure the $5 are the driver here. There aren't a lot of opportunities to earn money in prison. Having money in prison is important. Although having work time credits are more important as those earn you an early release. > Better than watching a cellmate all day. No one is doing that anyways.
- JSDevOps 2y ago
  [dead]
- arcticbull 2y ago
  Slave labor (which is permitted under the 13th amendment as punishment for a crime) undercuts the wages that you would pay in the market hurting both the prisoners (as they aren't paid appropriately or given appropriate medical care for injuries, etc) and the would-be non-prison firefighters. Worse, you generally can't be a firefighter once you get out of prison as they don't hire ex-convicts. Consequently you're not even learning a useful job skill. Note that this hard-ban was relaxed in California specifically in 2020 under AB2147 (allowing prisoners who participated in firefighting programs to apply to have their records expunged in certain cases) -- but applies elsewhere in the US.
  - hx8 2y ago
    I'm not informed on the specifics on these cases, but I generally view that (many/most) prisoners have a debt to society for breaking the social contract and serving the community by making it safer is a generally positive activity. I'm happy to adjust my opinion on this topic if provided evidence that inmate firefighters either are unsafe for the community or have worse outcomes than other inmates.
    - rvnx 2y ago
      I find it curious that some people here consider it as slavery ? It is an optional activity if I understand right. It seems rewarding to do a training to become a firefighter and join the team, than to idle in prison. It is a volunteer role. Many people in the world become volunteers in the firefighters, a lot are unpaid. They do it for reasons beyond money (making friends, feeling useful, helping people, etc). A prisoner may get some carrot as a reward (like less served time) but at the end, they all benefit.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - saagarjha 2y ago
        Volunteering to do work so you can shorten your sentence is slavery, yes.

rvnx 2y ago

(Very interesting info you found!) It seems to be a great way to reengage in the community and feel useful as a human being (and see people being grateful to you). Not so sure the $5 are the driver here. Better than watching a cellmate all day.

giraffe_lady 2y ago
I wonder if they have favorable consideration when applying to fire departments after they get out.
- rurp 2y ago
  It's often the opposite, where their conviction bars them from even applying for a job.
- Roguelazer 2y ago
  As I understand it, no. Most counties require that you have an EMT license to be a firefighter, and many people with conviction histories are barred from getting EMT licenses (Title 22 § 100214.3(c)). There was a bill a few years ago that allowed CalFire specifically to hire people as firefighters with an alternate credential that doesn't have a blanket-ban on people with conviction histories.
timewizard 2y ago
> Not so sure the $5 are the driver here. There aren't a lot of opportunities to earn money in prison. Having money in prison is important. Although having work time credits are more important as those earn you an early release. > Better than watching a cellmate all day. No one is doing that anyways.
JSDevOps 2y ago
[dead]
arcticbull 2y ago
Slave labor (which is permitted under the 13th amendment as punishment for a crime) undercuts the wages that you would pay in the market hurting both the prisoners (as they aren't paid appropriately or given appropriate medical care for injuries, etc) and the would-be non-prison firefighters. Worse, you generally can't be a firefighter once you get out of prison as they don't hire ex-convicts. Consequently you're not even learning a useful job skill. Note that this hard-ban was relaxed in California specifically in 2020 under AB2147 (allowing prisoners who participated in firefighting programs to apply to have their records expunged in certain cases) -- but applies elsewhere in the US.
- hx8 2y ago
  I'm not informed on the specifics on these cases, but I generally view that (many/most) prisoners have a debt to society for breaking the social contract and serving the community by making it safer is a generally positive activity. I'm happy to adjust my opinion on this topic if provided evidence that inmate firefighters either are unsafe for the community or have worse outcomes than other inmates.
  - rvnx 2y ago
    I find it curious that some people here consider it as slavery ? It is an optional activity if I understand right. It seems rewarding to do a training to become a firefighter and join the team, than to idle in prison. It is a volunteer role. Many people in the world become volunteers in the firefighters, a lot are unpaid. They do it for reasons beyond money (making friends, feeling useful, helping people, etc). A prisoner may get some carrot as a reward (like less served time) but at the end, they all benefit.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - saagarjha 2y ago
      Volunteering to do work so you can shorten your sentence is slavery, yes.