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Many sites carrying this news are filled will comments of the sort, "... and then <company> COPIED Apple's innovation." Forget the world of patents for a secon

by LVB 14y ago

Many sites carrying this news are filled will comments of the sort, "... and then <company> COPIED Apple's innovation." Forget the world of patents for a second. In what aspect of life is copying good ideas not a good idea? I do have some sympathy for the idea of protection in cases where the ratio of R&D to duplication costs is very high. A scroll bar doesn't pass that test.

Samuel_Michon 14y ago
I reckon that developing a better alternative to scroll bars will be quite R&D intensive. Apple first improved on the Xerox Star scroll bar with the Macintosh (the Star's scroll bar didn't have a position knob). With iPhone OS, Apple improved on the scroll bar by removing the buttons, and by implementing 'rubber banding' and auto hide. Every elegant solution seems obvious after it has been thought up.
grecy 14y ago
> In what aspect of life is copying good ideas not a good idea? It's always a good idea, that's why it's so popular. In this profit-driven society we live in, we've decided to make blatant copying of good ideas illegal so the original party with the good idea can reap all the profit from it. Let's face it, if you, or I, or anyone of us came up with a phenomenal idea worth billions, and some company produced exactly the same thing in 6 months, we'd be pretty pissed about that. (Note: I'm not saying that people are copying Apple exactly, or that Apple are justified in doing what they're doing, I'm just pointing out the reasoning behind what's going on) > A scroll bar doesn't pass that test. Interesting you should say that. You have no idea how much effort went into thinking up, then implementing the first scroll bar. Just because it's common-place now, doesn't mean it wasn't an example of the "good idea" we're talking about above. Let's use the example that you invent a technique for 100% efficient solar panels. 5 years from now when every tom, dick and harry company has ripped off you idea and is selling it, there will be tons of people saying "but those things are so common, you can't patent that" exactly as you are with scroll bars, etc.
- LVB 14y ago
  >if...anyone of us came up with a phenomenal idea worth billions, and some company produced exactly the same thing in 6 months, we'd be pretty pissed about that. Only since we're conditioned to the current environment where patents play a role. If I know very well that anyone could copy the idea readily, then perhaps it wasn't ever worth billions to me. But maybe it is a little hard to copy, or at least takes some time to implement well. Then I have a first-mover advantage that's worth something. And of course the really tough-to-copy items can possibly net me those billions. I think removing patents from the equation would result in everything settling to a new norm. Maybe that results in some ideas/investments not being pursued because they are then considered too risky. But you've also just removed a huge tax across the entire R&D process--for everyone. Perhaps that offsets the abandoned inventions. It probably won't happen in my lifetime to that degree, but I think we'd be better off the further we move in that direction.
  - eridius 14y ago
    There are tons of ideas that are really hard to come up with originally but really really easy to copy. This is one of the reasons patents exist. Saying that any idea that can be easily copied is not worth anything is ludicrous.
  - grecy 14y ago
    > I think removing patents from the equation would result in everything settling to a new norm. I don't disagree. But the only way we, and Apple, and anyone else can operate right now, is under the current system. If you're not willing to work within the current system, you're not going to do well. Of course, that's not to say we all shouldn't be investing energy into a new system, but you have to use what you've got when you've got it.

by LVB 14y ago

Samuel_Michon 14y ago

I reckon that developing a better alternative to scroll bars will be quite R&D intensive. Apple first improved on the Xerox Star scroll bar with the Macintosh (the Star's scroll bar didn't have a position knob). With iPhone OS, Apple improved on the scroll bar by removing the buttons, and by implementing 'rubber banding' and auto hide. Every elegant solution seems obvious after it has been thought up.

grecy 14y ago

> In what aspect of life is copying good ideas not a good idea? It's always a good idea, that's why it's so popular. In this profit-driven society we live in, we've decided to make blatant copying of good ideas illegal so the original party with the good idea can reap all the profit from it. Let's face it, if you, or I, or anyone of us came up with a phenomenal idea worth billions, and some company produced exactly the same thing in 6 months, we'd be pretty pissed about that. (Note: I'm not saying that people are copying Apple exactly, or that Apple are justified in doing what they're doing, I'm just pointing out the reasoning behind what's going on) > A scroll bar doesn't pass that test. Interesting you should say that. You have no idea how much effort went into thinking up, then implementing the first scroll bar. Just because it's common-place now, doesn't mean it wasn't an example of the "good idea" we're talking about above. Let's use the example that you invent a technique for 100% efficient solar panels. 5 years from now when every tom, dick and harry company has ripped off you idea and is selling it, there will be tons of people saying "but those things are so common, you can't patent that" exactly as you are with scroll bars, etc.

LVB 14y ago
>if...anyone of us came up with a phenomenal idea worth billions, and some company produced exactly the same thing in 6 months, we'd be pretty pissed about that. Only since we're conditioned to the current environment where patents play a role. If I know very well that anyone could copy the idea readily, then perhaps it wasn't ever worth billions to me. But maybe it is a little hard to copy, or at least takes some time to implement well. Then I have a first-mover advantage that's worth something. And of course the really tough-to-copy items can possibly net me those billions. I think removing patents from the equation would result in everything settling to a new norm. Maybe that results in some ideas/investments not being pursued because they are then considered too risky. But you've also just removed a huge tax across the entire R&D process--for everyone. Perhaps that offsets the abandoned inventions. It probably won't happen in my lifetime to that degree, but I think we'd be better off the further we move in that direction.
- eridius 14y ago
  There are tons of ideas that are really hard to come up with originally but really really easy to copy. This is one of the reasons patents exist. Saying that any idea that can be easily copied is not worth anything is ludicrous.
- grecy 14y ago
  > I think removing patents from the equation would result in everything settling to a new norm. I don't disagree. But the only way we, and Apple, and anyone else can operate right now, is under the current system. If you're not willing to work within the current system, you're not going to do well. Of course, that's not to say we all shouldn't be investing energy into a new system, but you have to use what you've got when you've got it.