5 ms·

I supported App.net with $50/year, here’s why

40 points by DanielRibeiro 14y ago

andrew_null 14y ago
Hi, OP here. I failed on the title, it's $50/year not month. I fixed it on my blog but now it's too late :(
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
vipervpn 14y ago
$50? With all the cake he's making? Maybe there really is a depression out there.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
CodeCube 14y ago
"App.net has the potential to be something more fundamental, like the web (HTTP) or email (SMTP)." Unfortunately, I have my reservations about this ... both of those protocols are, by definition, decentralized. They don't depend on a specific 3rd party provider as is the case with app.net (unless I'm misunderstanding their proposal). That definitely seems like the biggest weakness with app.net, especially for people who want it to become a ubiquitous piece of infrastructure. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited for app.net, and I hope they really deliver ... I've had several ideas where a generic 'feed' would be quite useful.
- nkwiatek 14y ago
  It reminded me of this comic: http://xkcd.com/927/ http://xkcd.com/927/ Add one more private feed company to the pile.
southpolesteve 14y ago
"App.net has the potential to be something more fundamental, like the web (HTTP) or email (SMTP)" To do this, wouldn't you need to abandon the centralized server? Neither of these services are paid products (the hosting is paid). A big reason that services like twitter, Facebook, and linkedin work at all is that they are centralized. Value is derived from all the accounts and data being in one place. Arguably THE reason that HTTP and SMTP work is that they are decentralized. Anyone can implement the protocol on any server. I don't really see how app.net can straddle this divide. From what I can tell, the current aim is to be a centralized service that has an api. That still sounds to me like a paid twitter with a less restrictive api. Seems to me the focus needs to actually be on an open protocol. One that any server can implement to display a feed[1]. [1] RSS? Maybe with some more bells and whistle.
- southpolesteve 14y ago
  Another thought: Seems like what App.net should be doing is designing and promoting an open protocol for feeds and then become global indexer of those feeds. Of course, Google might give them some trouble. I am sure Google is chomping at the bit to index the next evolution of the web.
wylie 14y ago
At first I was skeptical, but look at how successful Facebook's Open Graph is for a range of "social" platforms. Facebook is a pain to develop for, so if app.net is significantly easier it would make me think twice about integrating into Facebook first.
- andrewhillman 14y ago
  The reason why you develop for FB first is because they have the users. Are you going to develop for app.net first if the users are not using app.net? I think it is really risky to build ontop of an API that has few users. What if you dedicate the time integrating app.net and then 10 months later they decide to fold. I integrated picplzs API and a few months later they decided to fold the service. Complete waste of time.
reedlaw 14y ago
Am I correct that App.net is to Twitter what Vimeo is to Youtube? That is, a paid service with no ads. If so, why not just launch the service like any other web company? They can bootstrap with paying first customers. As a web developer myself I know how expensive a project like this can be, but I don't see why I should pledge before the service is even launched. How do I know I'll even like what they build?
- voidfiles 14y ago
  It's always hard to find a market for your product. This is one way to make sure there is a market before building a product.
  - obilgic 14y ago
    So founders don't know if there is a market for this app, and users suppose to know that they are part of the market without even knowing what the product is?
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - reedlaw 14y ago
    True, but it's not a competitive advantage in this age of countless social networks to ask for $50 before launch. And to overcome the bias towards non-paid services there will have to be some serious advantages. If it's just Twitter with a better API I can only conceive paying $5 a year for personal use.
    - voidfiles 14y ago
      I am not so sure that is the case. Kevin Kelly wrote about having 1000 true fans. I think his argument works here too. http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2008/03/1000_true_fans.php http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2008/03/1000_true_fan... If you think about how Twitter needs to reach 100 of millions if not billions of users to possibly become sustainable, or figure out how to squeeze more money out of the users they have. Then compare that to the App.net proposal. Especially the part about making the user the customer. Then you can see how having a small set of faithful users might be more sustainable. Dalton wrote more about this in his post: http://daltoncaldwell.com/an-audacious-proposal http://daltoncaldwell.com/an-audacious-proposal disclaimer: I work for App.net, but this post represents my own views.
ForrestN 14y ago
After watching the video, from a consumer's perspective I have literally no idea what the service is going to do. Is it sharing things with my friends? Is it a clone of twitter that is more developer friendly but that costs money to use? Is it a new HTTP? Apologies if I'm being dense but I really don't understand.
- arunoda 14y ago
  Me too. What is it? Is it kind of facebook or twitter? >he mentioned it is paid? So how you acquire customers? Is it kind of streamed timeline as a servers? If he can't tell me what it does in 1 min, I never ever gonna pre-order or back it up.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
obilgic 14y ago
I watched the video 5 times yesterday and 2 times today, I still have no idea what the product is, only thing I know is that it is a paid service with no ads, I feel like idiot.
- voidfiles 14y ago
  Have you read this http://daltoncaldwell.com/an-audacious-proposal http://daltoncaldwell.com/an-audacious-proposal
  - Produce 14y ago
    Even after that it's still not clear. So it's a messaging service without ads? Uhh... So what? How is this audacious or fundamental to the web in any way, shape or form? It just sounds like a Twitter rip off with a different business model. I'm not even sure what the business model is supposed to be except that it's 'not ads'. What a confusing pile of confusion this project is.
arihant 14y ago
I hope they really do an awesome job on implementing this. Nobody wants another OpenID or Diaspora (not that they were bad projects, but it just shows how disconnected hackers can be from masses). I would hate this thing to end up as a hacker's toy.
zacharyvoase 14y ago
> (Note that I don’t actually know what it’s going to be, I’m just writing about what I hope it will be!) I wonder how many other people are kvelling about what they hope it will be. > Today, feeds are owned by companies, but what if they don’t have to be? Well, wouldn't App.net be the big company?
madprops 14y ago
Isn't this kinda the goal of Status.net?
- frewsxcv 14y ago
  This is what I don't understand. Status.net is a great, open, decentralized/federated platform but we still have developers reinventing the wheel. I see why I should support App.net when they haven't said anything about how open their platform will be.
nagarch 14y ago
So what is bad in advertising! do you think they are harm! or you dont' like! do you advertise! or you dont advertise at all for your site! without advertising how you get s ome traction!
- Produce 14y ago
  Your communication style! is very unusual! even questions end with an exclamation! am I the only one who's confused!
  - bcambel 14y ago
    ! misunderstood!
    - nagarch 14y ago
      :) surprising?!
sylvinus 14y ago
Looking at how much they raised until now, I'd say that if they don't have some powerful communication relays planned for the next 2 weeks they won't make it to $500k. I don't know whether this is due to the fact that they're not on Kickstarter or that the project is just not viral/exciting/relevant enough.
codesimple 14y ago
If we're talking real-time feed... I think app.net's idea is a step in the right direction. However decentralized architecture will take time. The first step is to create a generic feed experience. We are actually starting to roll out http://friendbox.io http://friendbox.io - A real-time social platform for apps. Ultimately aiming to create an instant feed for any mobile game or app. Will be open source so you could design and share UI's, flows etc. Don't back us, just join us :) https://developer.friendbox.io/signup https://developer.friendbox.io/signup

40 points by DanielRibeiro 14y ago

andrew_null 14y ago

Hi, OP here. I failed on the title, it's $50/year not month. I fixed it on my blog but now it's too late :(

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

vipervpn 14y ago

$50? With all the cake he's making? Maybe there really is a depression out there.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

CodeCube 14y ago

"App.net has the potential to be something more fundamental, like the web (HTTP) or email (SMTP)." Unfortunately, I have my reservations about this ... both of those protocols are, by definition, decentralized. They don't depend on a specific 3rd party provider as is the case with app.net (unless I'm misunderstanding their proposal). That definitely seems like the biggest weakness with app.net, especially for people who want it to become a ubiquitous piece of infrastructure. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited for app.net, and I hope they really deliver ... I've had several ideas where a generic 'feed' would be quite useful.

nkwiatek 14y ago
It reminded me of this comic: http://xkcd.com/927/ http://xkcd.com/927/ Add one more private feed company to the pile.

southpolesteve 14y ago

"App.net has the potential to be something more fundamental, like the web (HTTP) or email (SMTP)" To do this, wouldn't you need to abandon the centralized server? Neither of these services are paid products (the hosting is paid). A big reason that services like twitter, Facebook, and linkedin work at all is that they are centralized. Value is derived from all the accounts and data being in one place. Arguably THE reason that HTTP and SMTP work is that they are decentralized. Anyone can implement the protocol on any server. I don't really see how app.net can straddle this divide. From what I can tell, the current aim is to be a centralized service that has an api. That still sounds to me like a paid twitter with a less restrictive api. Seems to me the focus needs to actually be on an open protocol. One that any server can implement to display a feed[1]. [1] RSS? Maybe with some more bells and whistle.

southpolesteve 14y ago
Another thought: Seems like what App.net should be doing is designing and promoting an open protocol for feeds and then become global indexer of those feeds. Of course, Google might give them some trouble. I am sure Google is chomping at the bit to index the next evolution of the web.

wylie 14y ago

At first I was skeptical, but look at how successful Facebook's Open Graph is for a range of "social" platforms. Facebook is a pain to develop for, so if app.net is significantly easier it would make me think twice about integrating into Facebook first.

andrewhillman 14y ago
The reason why you develop for FB first is because they have the users. Are you going to develop for app.net first if the users are not using app.net? I think it is really risky to build ontop of an API that has few users. What if you dedicate the time integrating app.net and then 10 months later they decide to fold. I integrated picplzs API and a few months later they decided to fold the service. Complete waste of time.

reedlaw 14y ago

Am I correct that App.net is to Twitter what Vimeo is to Youtube? That is, a paid service with no ads. If so, why not just launch the service like any other web company? They can bootstrap with paying first customers. As a web developer myself I know how expensive a project like this can be, but I don't see why I should pledge before the service is even launched. How do I know I'll even like what they build?

voidfiles 14y ago
It's always hard to find a market for your product. This is one way to make sure there is a market before building a product.
- obilgic 14y ago
  So founders don't know if there is a market for this app, and users suppose to know that they are part of the market without even knowing what the product is?
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- reedlaw 14y ago
  True, but it's not a competitive advantage in this age of countless social networks to ask for $50 before launch. And to overcome the bias towards non-paid services there will have to be some serious advantages. If it's just Twitter with a better API I can only conceive paying $5 a year for personal use.
  - voidfiles 14y ago
    I am not so sure that is the case. Kevin Kelly wrote about having 1000 true fans. I think his argument works here too. http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2008/03/1000_true_fans.php http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2008/03/1000_true_fan... If you think about how Twitter needs to reach 100 of millions if not billions of users to possibly become sustainable, or figure out how to squeeze more money out of the users they have. Then compare that to the App.net proposal. Especially the part about making the user the customer. Then you can see how having a small set of faithful users might be more sustainable. Dalton wrote more about this in his post: http://daltoncaldwell.com/an-audacious-proposal http://daltoncaldwell.com/an-audacious-proposal disclaimer: I work for App.net, but this post represents my own views.

ForrestN 14y ago

After watching the video, from a consumer's perspective I have literally no idea what the service is going to do. Is it sharing things with my friends? Is it a clone of twitter that is more developer friendly but that costs money to use? Is it a new HTTP? Apologies if I'm being dense but I really don't understand.

arunoda 14y ago
Me too. What is it? Is it kind of facebook or twitter? >he mentioned it is paid? So how you acquire customers? Is it kind of streamed timeline as a servers? If he can't tell me what it does in 1 min, I never ever gonna pre-order or back it up.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

obilgic 14y ago

I watched the video 5 times yesterday and 2 times today, I still have no idea what the product is, only thing I know is that it is a paid service with no ads, I feel like idiot.

voidfiles 14y ago
Have you read this http://daltoncaldwell.com/an-audacious-proposal http://daltoncaldwell.com/an-audacious-proposal
- Produce 14y ago
  Even after that it's still not clear. So it's a messaging service without ads? Uhh... So what? How is this audacious or fundamental to the web in any way, shape or form? It just sounds like a Twitter rip off with a different business model. I'm not even sure what the business model is supposed to be except that it's 'not ads'. What a confusing pile of confusion this project is.

arihant 14y ago

I hope they really do an awesome job on implementing this. Nobody wants another OpenID or Diaspora (not that they were bad projects, but it just shows how disconnected hackers can be from masses). I would hate this thing to end up as a hacker's toy.

zacharyvoase 14y ago

> (Note that I don’t actually know what it’s going to be, I’m just writing about what I hope it will be!) I wonder how many other people are kvelling about what they hope it will be. > Today, feeds are owned by companies, but what if they don’t have to be? Well, wouldn't App.net be the big company?

madprops 14y ago

Isn't this kinda the goal of Status.net?

frewsxcv 14y ago
This is what I don't understand. Status.net is a great, open, decentralized/federated platform but we still have developers reinventing the wheel. I see why I should support App.net when they haven't said anything about how open their platform will be.

nagarch 14y ago

So what is bad in advertising! do you think they are harm! or you dont' like! do you advertise! or you dont advertise at all for your site! without advertising how you get s ome traction!

Produce 14y ago
Your communication style! is very unusual! even questions end with an exclamation! am I the only one who's confused!
- bcambel 14y ago
  ! misunderstood!
  - nagarch 14y ago
    :) surprising?!

sylvinus 14y ago

Looking at how much they raised until now, I'd say that if they don't have some powerful communication relays planned for the next 2 weeks they won't make it to $500k. I don't know whether this is due to the fact that they're not on Kickstarter or that the project is just not viral/exciting/relevant enough.

codesimple 14y ago

If we're talking real-time feed... I think app.net's idea is a step in the right direction. However decentralized architecture will take time. The first step is to create a generic feed experience. We are actually starting to roll out http://friendbox.io http://friendbox.io - A real-time social platform for apps. Ultimately aiming to create an instant feed for any mobile game or app. Will be open source so you could design and share UI's, flows etc. Don't back us, just join us :) https://developer.friendbox.io/signup https://developer.friendbox.io/signup