4 ms·

The patent is peppered with this phrase: portable multifunction device, comprising: a touch screen display Which I don't get. One part of the document tal

The patent is peppered with this phrase: portable multifunction device, comprising: a touch screen display Which I don't get. One part of the document talks about disappearing scrollbars, which have been around for ages. This patent apparently only applies if the disappearing scrollbar appears on a "portable multifunction device, comprising: a touch screen display", which just doesn't make sense to me. In the same way patent are also awarded for "some thing that previously existed" but with 2 fingers instead of 1! Or "some thing that previously existed" but inside of a web browser! IANAL and obvious this stuff is awarded, but I don't get it.

taligent 14y ago
I actually wasn't aware of disappearing scrollbars before iOS. Care to provide an example of prior art ?
- billsix 14y ago
  Smalltalk 80. http://st-www.cs.illinois.edu/users/smarch/st-docs/mvc.html http://st-www.cs.illinois.edu/users/smarch/st-docs/mvc.html
  - taligent 14y ago
    That article is talking about focus follows mouse. Which I fail to see how is applicable for a touchscreen device which has no concept of focus.
    - dsirijus 14y ago
      Of course it has concept of focus. 0-length focus.
- Steko 14y ago
  Are "disappearing scrollbars" in general patented or just the implementation on mobile touchscreens with a non full-scrollbar and moves with the scrolling? The language used suggests that disappearing scrollbars aren't completely novel but the prior ones used a full length scroll bar (on desktops, etc.) The iOS scrollbar does seem both novel and innovative. It also seems fairly minor and the kind of thing I'd be easy to program around.
  - MatthewPhillips 14y ago
    Yes, you're definitely right that this is what their patenting, not disappearing scrollbars generally. But I don't agree that it being done on a touch screen makes it novel.
    - Steko 14y ago
      I'm not saying doing it on a phone is what makes it novel. The minimal and smaller but proportional bar that moves and then fades out does seem novel to me in total regardless of prior bars that were minimal (windows has had a setting that allowed 1 pixel bars since xp or vista at least), smaller (my understanding is that smalltalk's original bar was not full length), gave a sense of proportion (pretty sure BeOS had a setting for this) or disappeared (I'm sure there's something). Analogously there could already be robots that ride horses, robots that chew bubble gum and robots that do the macarena but we can still patent a new robot that did all three of those at the same time.
- MatthewPhillips 14y ago
  It might very well be the first on a touch screen, but it's been quite common (in a trendy sort of way) throughout computing. Haven't you every used an image viewer that had the scrollbars disappear when you zoomed in and where panning around?
geon 14y ago
You see that kind of patents all the time; Common technology, used every day by thousands of people but on the internet, or but on a cellphone. Suddenly the most mundane thing is a patent worthy invention.
Steko 14y ago
Basically 3/4 of smartphone patents are Computer Function X, This Time On a Phone!1
jonhendry 14y ago
It's like a patent for "a light bulb, but now with a thicker filament and a coating to make it more durable". Compared to inventing the light bulb, it's a paltry invention. But it may well have been a big deal at the time, to customers who maybe couldn't use regular bulbs and had to resort to, I dunno, more durable acetylene lamps or something. And of course it might have been tricky, figuring out just how to make an economical thicker filament, or finding an appropriate coating that didn't block too much light, and finding a way of applying it to lightbulbs in a mass-production context.

taligent 14y ago

I actually wasn't aware of disappearing scrollbars before iOS. Care to provide an example of prior art ?

billsix 14y ago
Smalltalk 80. http://st-www.cs.illinois.edu/users/smarch/st-docs/mvc.html http://st-www.cs.illinois.edu/users/smarch/st-docs/mvc.html
- taligent 14y ago
  That article is talking about focus follows mouse. Which I fail to see how is applicable for a touchscreen device which has no concept of focus.
  - dsirijus 14y ago
    Of course it has concept of focus. 0-length focus.
Steko 14y ago
Are "disappearing scrollbars" in general patented or just the implementation on mobile touchscreens with a non full-scrollbar and moves with the scrolling? The language used suggests that disappearing scrollbars aren't completely novel but the prior ones used a full length scroll bar (on desktops, etc.) The iOS scrollbar does seem both novel and innovative. It also seems fairly minor and the kind of thing I'd be easy to program around.
- MatthewPhillips 14y ago
  Yes, you're definitely right that this is what their patenting, not disappearing scrollbars generally. But I don't agree that it being done on a touch screen makes it novel.
  - Steko 14y ago
    I'm not saying doing it on a phone is what makes it novel. The minimal and smaller but proportional bar that moves and then fades out does seem novel to me in total regardless of prior bars that were minimal (windows has had a setting that allowed 1 pixel bars since xp or vista at least), smaller (my understanding is that smalltalk's original bar was not full length), gave a sense of proportion (pretty sure BeOS had a setting for this) or disappeared (I'm sure there's something). Analogously there could already be robots that ride horses, robots that chew bubble gum and robots that do the macarena but we can still patent a new robot that did all three of those at the same time.
MatthewPhillips 14y ago
It might very well be the first on a touch screen, but it's been quite common (in a trendy sort of way) throughout computing. Haven't you every used an image viewer that had the scrollbars disappear when you zoomed in and where panning around?

geon 14y ago

You see that kind of patents all the time; Common technology, used every day by thousands of people but on the internet, or but on a cellphone. Suddenly the most mundane thing is a patent worthy invention.

Steko 14y ago

Basically 3/4 of smartphone patents are Computer Function X, This Time On a Phone!1

jonhendry 14y ago

It's like a patent for "a light bulb, but now with a thicker filament and a coating to make it more durable". Compared to inventing the light bulb, it's a paltry invention. But it may well have been a big deal at the time, to customers who maybe couldn't use regular bulbs and had to resort to, I dunno, more durable acetylene lamps or something. And of course it might have been tricky, figuring out just how to make an economical thicker filament, or finding an appropriate coating that didn't block too much light, and finding a way of applying it to lightbulbs in a mass-production context.