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I love the serenityos concept (and ladybird browser) so I'm glad to see this progress!

LeFantome 2y ago
Me as well. Sadly, they have parted ways at this point. Not only has Ladybird broken off into an independent project but it does not consider SerenityOS a target platform anymore. Ladybird is slowly shedding a lot of the “home grown” Serenity layers and replacing them with more mainstream alternatives. As I am primarily a Linux user, I am excited to see Ladybird become a real alternative on Linux. However, as a fan of SerenityOS as well, I am sad to see all the energy and innovation that was going into Ladybird get stripped out of SerenityOS.
- leidenfrost 2y ago
  I just with it retains the "hobby project with real programming practices first" vibe and not get carried away with the anxiety to compete with big Browsers. Yes, I too want a third browser alternative. But if they sacrifice code quality for getting there fast, it will end up with the same fate as Firefox.
  - TehCorwiz 2y ago
    It's not quality they're sacrificing. SerenityOS is built on the idea of rejecting anything "not invented here". Basically it's from-scratch on purpose. Ladybird by contrast actually has the goal of being a real usable viable independent browser. So they're removing a lot of the home-grown Serenity stuff and replacing with open source libs. For instance they just removed the their home-grown SSL implementation and replaced it with OpenSSL. Likewise with their graphics layer they adopted a mature backend which now supports WebGL as a results. Ladybird's network stack is based on Curl these days I believe. It's about using solid public open source libraries as the foundation instead of having to be experts in every niche part.
  - fngjdflmdflg 2y ago
    They are vastly improving code quality by replacing first party libraries with third party ones. For example all the encryption libraries, media codecs etc. create a needlessly large attack surface (and general correctness surface) if you roll your own. That's why some of the first things they've started using are FFMPEG and OpenSSL.
- bowsamic 2y ago
  Ladybird has a very large political aim: to become the only browser that isn't funded by Google or based on Google's browser engine. The reason it left behind SerenityOS is because it has moved from a hobbyist aim to a very serious political aim.
  - Apocryphon 2y ago
    You should say only major browser that fits those categories because examples of the latter exist- Orion uses WebKit and Zen uses Gecko- and I imagine the former is even more common.
    - bowsamic 2y ago
      WebKit and gecko are funded by google
      - Apocryphon 2y ago
        WebKit is forked by Google and Firefox is funded by Google.
      - fiddlerwoaroof 2y ago
        WebKit is funded by Apple, not Google anymore as far as I know
        adamrt 2y ago
        Google pays Apple ~$20B to be default search engine in Safari/Webkit though
        fiddlerwoaroof 2y ago
        I think it’s pretty different when it’s going to a trillion-dollar company than when it’s the main source of money for a foundation.
        2y ago

Me as well. Sadly, they have parted ways at this point. Not only has Ladybird broken off into an independent project but it does not consider SerenityOS a target platform anymore. Ladybird is slowly shedding a lot of the “home grown” Serenity layers and replacing them with more mainstream alternatives. As I am primarily a Linux user, I am excited to see Ladybird become a real alternative on Linux. However, as a fan of SerenityOS as well, I am sad to see all the energy and innovation that was going into Ladybird get stripped out of SerenityOS.

leidenfrost 2y ago
I just with it retains the "hobby project with real programming practices first" vibe and not get carried away with the anxiety to compete with big Browsers. Yes, I too want a third browser alternative. But if they sacrifice code quality for getting there fast, it will end up with the same fate as Firefox.
- TehCorwiz 2y ago
  It's not quality they're sacrificing. SerenityOS is built on the idea of rejecting anything "not invented here". Basically it's from-scratch on purpose. Ladybird by contrast actually has the goal of being a real usable viable independent browser. So they're removing a lot of the home-grown Serenity stuff and replacing with open source libs. For instance they just removed the their home-grown SSL implementation and replaced it with OpenSSL. Likewise with their graphics layer they adopted a mature backend which now supports WebGL as a results. Ladybird's network stack is based on Curl these days I believe. It's about using solid public open source libraries as the foundation instead of having to be experts in every niche part.
- fngjdflmdflg 2y ago
  They are vastly improving code quality by replacing first party libraries with third party ones. For example all the encryption libraries, media codecs etc. create a needlessly large attack surface (and general correctness surface) if you roll your own. That's why some of the first things they've started using are FFMPEG and OpenSSL.
bowsamic 2y ago
Ladybird has a very large political aim: to become the only browser that isn't funded by Google or based on Google's browser engine. The reason it left behind SerenityOS is because it has moved from a hobbyist aim to a very serious political aim.
- Apocryphon 2y ago
  You should say only major browser that fits those categories because examples of the latter exist- Orion uses WebKit and Zen uses Gecko- and I imagine the former is even more common.
  - bowsamic 2y ago
    WebKit and gecko are funded by google
    - Apocryphon 2y ago
      WebKit is forked by Google and Firefox is funded by Google.
    - fiddlerwoaroof 2y ago
      WebKit is funded by Apple, not Google anymore as far as I know
      - adamrt 2y ago
        Google pays Apple ~$20B to be default search engine in Safari/Webkit though
        fiddlerwoaroof 2y ago
        I think it’s pretty different when it’s going to a trillion-dollar company than when it’s the main source of money for a foundation.
        2y ago