4 ms·

In any case, the demise of the use of Latin in the church… It’s actually making a comeback in the Catholic Church with the growing popularity of the traditiona

In any case, the demise of the use of Latin in the church… It’s actually making a comeback in the Catholic Church with the growing popularity of the traditional Latin Mass, which is celebrated around the world by various communities, much to the chagrin of some persons presently of influence and/or in leadership. https://www.latinmass.live/ https://www.latinmass.live/ It’s much rarer to encounter the reformed Mass (missal of 1969-latest, i.e. reforms following Vatican II) offered in Latin, but it is done in some places. The communities offering the traditional Latin Mass use the 1962 edition or a 20th Century edition predating the changes to Holy Week in 1955.

TheFreim 2y ago
I'm not sure the recent revival of interest in the Latin mass has much bearing on the number of people who are actually learning the language. Most people I know who participate at Mass in Latin don't know the language and make little, if any, attempts to learn it. There is often a complete reliance on translations where prayers are recited in Latin but then still need to be read in the English side of the missal to be understood. There is also an odd, yet quite outspoken (online), contingent of people who promote the Latin Mass while simultaneously downplaying the importance of learning Latin for having a fuller view of history and the science of theology.
- michaelsbradley 2y ago
  Many of the TLM-attending families I’ve spoken to have Latin studies in their home/school curriculum. I’ve not encountered the online contingent you mentioned so can’t really comment on them. The long tradition in the Roman Rite is for laity and others not celebrating or in choir to cultivate mental prayer that is centered on the Eucharistic sacrifice and informed by the themes of the season and/or feast. It’s nice to have a hand missal/ette to review the day’s readings and prayers before or after Mass, but following along with the printed word can actually be a distraction from prayer during Mass. However, what’s most conducive to a spirit of prayer and interior participation can vary by person, i.e. there’s no “one best way”.
froh 2y ago
> growing popularity of the traditional Latin Mass there is no such thing as a "growing popularity" of the mass in latin. because, surprise, the spells work just fine in any language. because, surprise again, Jesus spoke Aramaic. and the educated spoke Greek. PP Francis is putting the whole misguided "Jesus sacrifice" liturgy and it's backwards thinking back to where it belongs: history books.
- michaelsbradley 2y ago
  Tell that to the 1000+ seating traditional Latin Mass churches around the world where families pack the pews along with hundreds of babies in the arms of parents and older siblings at Mass on Sundays and major feast days. It is true that some in leadership presently, including Pope Francis, don't care for the movement and have been hampering it in various ways in recent years, but at this point its growth is unstoppable. Even if Francis dropped an even harder ban hammer (he won't for various reasons), it would just lead to immediate explosive growth of the SSPX because affected families and clergy-religious would never go back to the Novus Ordo Missae. Anyway, we can have that discussion in another context if you wish. Mainly I wanted to point out that "Latin in the church" is alive and well and only more so in recent years. > PP Francis is putting the whole misguided "Jesus sacrifice" liturgy and it's backwards thinking back to where it belongs: history books. I'm not sure what information sources inform your thinking on this matter, but regardless it's an extremely distorted take on Catholic theology of the Eucharist. Again, that's getting far afield of the OP and my original comment, so can discuss elsewhere, but you can check the 1997 Catechism: http://scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c1a3.htm#V http://scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c1a3.htm#V
  - int_19h 2y ago
    What is the proportion of Latin Mass churches to all the rest?
    - michaelsbradley 2y ago
      Very small in relation to worldwide numbers, but with young members that on average are having large-ish numbers of children. Also, the traditional Latin Mass religious communities (FSSP, ICKSP, et al.) are attracting lots of young men and women to the priesthood and religious life, so their numbers of priestly ordinations are "way up" relative to others.

TheFreim 2y ago

I'm not sure the recent revival of interest in the Latin mass has much bearing on the number of people who are actually learning the language. Most people I know who participate at Mass in Latin don't know the language and make little, if any, attempts to learn it. There is often a complete reliance on translations where prayers are recited in Latin but then still need to be read in the English side of the missal to be understood. There is also an odd, yet quite outspoken (online), contingent of people who promote the Latin Mass while simultaneously downplaying the importance of learning Latin for having a fuller view of history and the science of theology.

michaelsbradley 2y ago
Many of the TLM-attending families I’ve spoken to have Latin studies in their home/school curriculum. I’ve not encountered the online contingent you mentioned so can’t really comment on them. The long tradition in the Roman Rite is for laity and others not celebrating or in choir to cultivate mental prayer that is centered on the Eucharistic sacrifice and informed by the themes of the season and/or feast. It’s nice to have a hand missal/ette to review the day’s readings and prayers before or after Mass, but following along with the printed word can actually be a distraction from prayer during Mass. However, what’s most conducive to a spirit of prayer and interior participation can vary by person, i.e. there’s no “one best way”.

froh 2y ago

> growing popularity of the traditional Latin Mass there is no such thing as a "growing popularity" of the mass in latin. because, surprise, the spells work just fine in any language. because, surprise again, Jesus spoke Aramaic. and the educated spoke Greek. PP Francis is putting the whole misguided "Jesus sacrifice" liturgy and it's backwards thinking back to where it belongs: history books.

michaelsbradley 2y ago
Tell that to the 1000+ seating traditional Latin Mass churches around the world where families pack the pews along with hundreds of babies in the arms of parents and older siblings at Mass on Sundays and major feast days. It is true that some in leadership presently, including Pope Francis, don't care for the movement and have been hampering it in various ways in recent years, but at this point its growth is unstoppable. Even if Francis dropped an even harder ban hammer (he won't for various reasons), it would just lead to immediate explosive growth of the SSPX because affected families and clergy-religious would never go back to the Novus Ordo Missae. Anyway, we can have that discussion in another context if you wish. Mainly I wanted to point out that "Latin in the church" is alive and well and only more so in recent years. > PP Francis is putting the whole misguided "Jesus sacrifice" liturgy and it's backwards thinking back to where it belongs: history books. I'm not sure what information sources inform your thinking on this matter, but regardless it's an extremely distorted take on Catholic theology of the Eucharist. Again, that's getting far afield of the OP and my original comment, so can discuss elsewhere, but you can check the 1997 Catechism: http://scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c1a3.htm#V http://scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c1a3.htm#V
- int_19h 2y ago
  What is the proportion of Latin Mass churches to all the rest?
  - michaelsbradley 2y ago
    Very small in relation to worldwide numbers, but with young members that on average are having large-ish numbers of children. Also, the traditional Latin Mass religious communities (FSSP, ICKSP, et al.) are attracting lots of young men and women to the priesthood and religious life, so their numbers of priestly ordinations are "way up" relative to others.