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Man this would have been nice when I was in school. For some reason linear algebra still isn't part of standard Mechanical Engineering course load (Calc 1, 2,

Man this would have been nice when I was in school. For some reason linear algebra still isn't part of standard Mechanical Engineering course load (Calc 1, 2, 3, DiffEq) which made life extremely difficult in some of the later classes. I remember spending weeks brute forcing a lot of things that would have been trivial with a little bit of matrix math. I took a superficially similar class as a 400 level elective but it assumed everyone already knew linear algebra going in, and it was a disaster.

cashsterling 2y ago
Same... I didn't have to take Linear Algebra in ChemE undergrad. DiffEq had a little bit of LA... and ChemE had few classes where bits of pieces of LA where introduced and applied. Graduate school definitely made up for lost time... LA was very front and center in the applied math courses.
WillAdams 2y ago
Currently watching: https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/6-042j-mathematics-for-computer-science-fall-2010/video_galleries/video-lectures https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/6-042j-mathematics-for-computer-... and that assumption seems to be there as well, so very glad of the posting of the Youtube links elsethread.
BeetleB 2y ago
> For some reason linear algebra still isn't part of standard Mechanical Engineering course load (Calc 1, 2, 3, DiffEq) Wow. In my undergrad all engineering majors had to take linear algebra (calc 3 was optional for computer engineering).
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- tonyarkles 2y ago
  I did an EE/CS dual degree and there was a really interesting difference between the linear algebra courses offered in both departments. For the EEs we were given a crash course in GE120, which all engineering students had to take. It covered how to use determinants, Gaussian elimination and matrix inversion, and those kinds of “basic” LA tools, plus some simple numerical methods stuff like Newton’s Method. In second year we had a short lab course that focused on how to use Matlab, and a circuits analysis course that pretty much forced us to learn how to represent large sets of equations in matrix form and invert them to solve all of the variables at once. Very very practical. And then in third year I had to take a 200-level linear algebra course from the Math department to satisfy the requirements for the CS degree. I chose the honours version of it and… holy moly. I thought it was going to be a gimme class but it turned out to be very theory-heavy, of which I had learned almost none in engineering. The first month kicked my ass pretty hard. Once we got out of the low-level theory (which was truly amazing to take in) and into the more advanced things that I’d been using for 2 years but didn’t know “why”, everything changed. Many of my peers were struggling to understand why you’d want to do some of this stuff and I was just super excited to finally understand why the “just turn the crank” math I’d been doing actually worked.
- angry_moose 2y ago
  Maybe some schools do but it's baffling to me its not a universal requirement. It'd be dramatically more useful than Calc3 for most engineers. Michigan doesn't seem to require it as the College of Engineering core classes or as part of the BSME (checked because they're who this course is through): https://me.engin.umich.edu/academics/undergrad/handbook/bachelors/#CoE-Core-Courses https://me.engin.umich.edu/academics/undergrad/handbook/bach... And my alma mater has a very similar progression.
  - lupire 2y ago
    The Robotics concentration requires Linear (Matrix) Algebra. And some upper level courses have a prerequisite. But indeed it does seem a avoidable for many MechE majors. Funny thread about UM engineering students avoiding taking UM math classes. https://www.reddit.com/r/uofm/comments/15w18gv/reminder_you_do_not_have_to_take_math_at_michigan/ https://www.reddit.com/r/uofm/comments/15w18gv/reminder_you_...
  - Sanzig 2y ago
    First year linear algebra is a requirement in Canada for national accreditation of any engineering program.
    - bigger_cheese 2y ago
      Linear Algebra was a first year subject for me as well. I studied Engineering in Australia.
- caspper69 2y ago
  This would have helped me get an actual CS degree 25 years ago instead of CS-lite (networking & server admin). It's not that I can't do calculus, I took it in high school, and then again in my first go-round in CS. It's that I hate calculus. Not the subject itself, just the grinding away at problem sets. I did a refresher in pre-calc, calc I, calc II & discrete mathematics during COVID at the local community college (was planning to finish the few credits I need for an actual CS BS) & I started calc III twice (but dropped both times). I even got a 4.0 on my first calc III exam (and this was an in-person class, so no online shenanigans). I just have some kind of weird aversion to 3 dimensional calculus. I have convinced myself that I'm simply not smart enough to actually do the work. I understand it, I just get clammy with it. Truth be told, maths are my kryptonite. Despite working with numbers all day every day for 30+ years, and writing a lot of software over the years (and not just CRUD, but games of all things), I am absolutely ashamed that I just can't seem to grok math with any rigor. I have all the Stewart textbooks on my shelf, many textbooks from libgen (ones I've seen recommended on HN from people who went to much better universities than I attended), and I even work through problems a few hours per week. I just can't seem to make that leap from a guy who's "good with numbers" (from a layperson's perspective) to a guy who's good at math. Maybe I need to break open one of my physics textbooks and actually use the calculus in an applied context and that will break whatever mental barrier I have (I've even watched all of the 3 blue 1 brown videos, countless youtube lectures, etc).
  - downrightmike 2y ago
    Maybe stop torturing yourself for a bit. Sounds miserable.
    - caspper69 2y ago
      Such is life. We all have regrets, and being sloppy and indifferent with math in my youth is a big one for me. If I had done it then, I wouldn't have to try so hard now.
  - liontwist 2y ago
    There are deep concepts behind multi variable cal. But if you just want to pass the course, memorizing problem shapes through practice will get you through calc 3. Do all the homework problems check the answer in the back of the book. You’ll make it.
- antman 2y ago
  We had the basic Linear Algebra in high school
mp05 2y ago
Yes back in 2005 when I first went to undergrad as a mech engineering major, linear algebra was not a requirement. Our mechanics professors were highly irritated by this. I don't think this has changed much (but absolutely should). I've watched in real time as Micron representatives reject mechanical engineers and prefer résumés from industrial engineers for design roles due to their superior grasp on linear algebra and statistics. I'm paraphrasing but "it's easier to teach an IE how to do FEA than it is to teach a mechanical engineer DOE and Weibull analysis".
- gnubison 2y ago
  What do these acronyms mean?—IE, FEA, DOE?
  - angry_moose 2y ago
    IE == Industrial Engineering: broad, but generally "Engineering of Systems" instead of a physical product. Laying out factories, setting up supply chains, etc. It's morphed a little bit from the original field so the name isn't super accurate. FEA == Finite Element Analysis: advanced method of predicting the strength of a product via numerical simulation. DOE == Design of Experiments: evaluation of how the outputs of a system change as you vary the inputs. At a high level, you build model of the system, then vary all the inputs through their entire range and to build a response surface of the output.
    - mp05 2y ago
      > It's morphed a little bit from the original field so the name isn't super accurate. I'm currently doing a masters in IMSE--Industrial and Management Systems Engineering--and yeah it's changed since the 70s or whenever it had its real heyday (they come in waves). The updated curriculum for undergrad is essentially the same as a mechanical engineering for the first two years, but as they wander off into advanced mechanics and fluids, IMSE students are doing time studies, factory design (FLOW!), and lots of stats and algorithms. I've actually had the pleasure of getting to gripe to our school's Industrial Advisory Board which seems mostly full of Boeing people. They want to know if the curriculum serves the students well and I preach to them that, actually, if you spend 6 or 9 extra credits on proper software engineering that you've created a monster... but they don't listen. Some even get kind of offended because they think that a career in project management is a fine way to go about life (why go to engineering school?) Sorry programming blows your mind? Perhaps that's why we need to teach it? I've done a lot of ERP integrations in my career and I'm not sure who they think is most qualified to do those sorts of things.

cashsterling 2y ago

Same... I didn't have to take Linear Algebra in ChemE undergrad. DiffEq had a little bit of LA... and ChemE had few classes where bits of pieces of LA where introduced and applied. Graduate school definitely made up for lost time... LA was very front and center in the applied math courses.

WillAdams 2y ago

Currently watching: https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/6-042j-mathematics-for-computer-science-fall-2010/video_galleries/video-lectures https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/6-042j-mathematics-for-computer-... and that assumption seems to be there as well, so very glad of the posting of the Youtube links elsethread.

BeetleB 2y ago

> For some reason linear algebra still isn't part of standard Mechanical Engineering course load (Calc 1, 2, 3, DiffEq) Wow. In my undergrad all engineering majors had to take linear algebra (calc 3 was optional for computer engineering).

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
tonyarkles 2y ago
I did an EE/CS dual degree and there was a really interesting difference between the linear algebra courses offered in both departments. For the EEs we were given a crash course in GE120, which all engineering students had to take. It covered how to use determinants, Gaussian elimination and matrix inversion, and those kinds of “basic” LA tools, plus some simple numerical methods stuff like Newton’s Method. In second year we had a short lab course that focused on how to use Matlab, and a circuits analysis course that pretty much forced us to learn how to represent large sets of equations in matrix form and invert them to solve all of the variables at once. Very very practical. And then in third year I had to take a 200-level linear algebra course from the Math department to satisfy the requirements for the CS degree. I chose the honours version of it and… holy moly. I thought it was going to be a gimme class but it turned out to be very theory-heavy, of which I had learned almost none in engineering. The first month kicked my ass pretty hard. Once we got out of the low-level theory (which was truly amazing to take in) and into the more advanced things that I’d been using for 2 years but didn’t know “why”, everything changed. Many of my peers were struggling to understand why you’d want to do some of this stuff and I was just super excited to finally understand why the “just turn the crank” math I’d been doing actually worked.
angry_moose 2y ago
Maybe some schools do but it's baffling to me its not a universal requirement. It'd be dramatically more useful than Calc3 for most engineers. Michigan doesn't seem to require it as the College of Engineering core classes or as part of the BSME (checked because they're who this course is through): https://me.engin.umich.edu/academics/undergrad/handbook/bachelors/#CoE-Core-Courses https://me.engin.umich.edu/academics/undergrad/handbook/bach... And my alma mater has a very similar progression.
- lupire 2y ago
  The Robotics concentration requires Linear (Matrix) Algebra. And some upper level courses have a prerequisite. But indeed it does seem a avoidable for many MechE majors. Funny thread about UM engineering students avoiding taking UM math classes. https://www.reddit.com/r/uofm/comments/15w18gv/reminder_you_do_not_have_to_take_math_at_michigan/ https://www.reddit.com/r/uofm/comments/15w18gv/reminder_you_...
- Sanzig 2y ago
  First year linear algebra is a requirement in Canada for national accreditation of any engineering program.
  - bigger_cheese 2y ago
    Linear Algebra was a first year subject for me as well. I studied Engineering in Australia.
caspper69 2y ago
This would have helped me get an actual CS degree 25 years ago instead of CS-lite (networking & server admin). It's not that I can't do calculus, I took it in high school, and then again in my first go-round in CS. It's that I hate calculus. Not the subject itself, just the grinding away at problem sets. I did a refresher in pre-calc, calc I, calc II & discrete mathematics during COVID at the local community college (was planning to finish the few credits I need for an actual CS BS) & I started calc III twice (but dropped both times). I even got a 4.0 on my first calc III exam (and this was an in-person class, so no online shenanigans). I just have some kind of weird aversion to 3 dimensional calculus. I have convinced myself that I'm simply not smart enough to actually do the work. I understand it, I just get clammy with it. Truth be told, maths are my kryptonite. Despite working with numbers all day every day for 30+ years, and writing a lot of software over the years (and not just CRUD, but games of all things), I am absolutely ashamed that I just can't seem to grok math with any rigor. I have all the Stewart textbooks on my shelf, many textbooks from libgen (ones I've seen recommended on HN from people who went to much better universities than I attended), and I even work through problems a few hours per week. I just can't seem to make that leap from a guy who's "good with numbers" (from a layperson's perspective) to a guy who's good at math. Maybe I need to break open one of my physics textbooks and actually use the calculus in an applied context and that will break whatever mental barrier I have (I've even watched all of the 3 blue 1 brown videos, countless youtube lectures, etc).
- downrightmike 2y ago
  Maybe stop torturing yourself for a bit. Sounds miserable.
  - caspper69 2y ago
    Such is life. We all have regrets, and being sloppy and indifferent with math in my youth is a big one for me. If I had done it then, I wouldn't have to try so hard now.
- liontwist 2y ago
  There are deep concepts behind multi variable cal. But if you just want to pass the course, memorizing problem shapes through practice will get you through calc 3. Do all the homework problems check the answer in the back of the book. You’ll make it.
antman 2y ago
We had the basic Linear Algebra in high school

mp05 2y ago

Yes back in 2005 when I first went to undergrad as a mech engineering major, linear algebra was not a requirement. Our mechanics professors were highly irritated by this. I don't think this has changed much (but absolutely should). I've watched in real time as Micron representatives reject mechanical engineers and prefer résumés from industrial engineers for design roles due to their superior grasp on linear algebra and statistics. I'm paraphrasing but "it's easier to teach an IE how to do FEA than it is to teach a mechanical engineer DOE and Weibull analysis".

gnubison 2y ago
What do these acronyms mean?—IE, FEA, DOE?
- angry_moose 2y ago
  IE == Industrial Engineering: broad, but generally "Engineering of Systems" instead of a physical product. Laying out factories, setting up supply chains, etc. It's morphed a little bit from the original field so the name isn't super accurate. FEA == Finite Element Analysis: advanced method of predicting the strength of a product via numerical simulation. DOE == Design of Experiments: evaluation of how the outputs of a system change as you vary the inputs. At a high level, you build model of the system, then vary all the inputs through their entire range and to build a response surface of the output.
  - mp05 2y ago
    > It's morphed a little bit from the original field so the name isn't super accurate. I'm currently doing a masters in IMSE--Industrial and Management Systems Engineering--and yeah it's changed since the 70s or whenever it had its real heyday (they come in waves). The updated curriculum for undergrad is essentially the same as a mechanical engineering for the first two years, but as they wander off into advanced mechanics and fluids, IMSE students are doing time studies, factory design (FLOW!), and lots of stats and algorithms. I've actually had the pleasure of getting to gripe to our school's Industrial Advisory Board which seems mostly full of Boeing people. They want to know if the curriculum serves the students well and I preach to them that, actually, if you spend 6 or 9 extra credits on proper software engineering that you've created a monster... but they don't listen. Some even get kind of offended because they think that a career in project management is a fine way to go about life (why go to engineering school?) Sorry programming blows your mind? Perhaps that's why we need to teach it? I've done a lot of ERP integrations in my career and I'm not sure who they think is most qualified to do those sorts of things.